Philips 9710 M/8 new enclosure help. - Page 3

Squeak · 24th November 2020, 12:57 AM

Small metal cones can be good. Larger not so much.
Mark would have one of his rage fits if he read that though. ;-)

SinGun · 01:23 AM

LOL. After hearing 60 years old FR speakers the chief editor of the German DIY LS magazine Klang & Ton asked: "What did the LS industry done in the last 50 years?".

The Alpair 10.3 sounds even worse than cheap Finnish 8 inch Gradient fullrangers.

Well, Visaton AL-130 & Alpair 6 are small indeed. Alpair 6 = Best desktop LS I have ever heard, simply fantastic. Gutsy, bold, big gestalt, go really loud, smooth and rhythmic like hell.

SinGun · 24th November 2020, 02:55 AM

Philips catalogue from the year of the lord 1980:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/fe...1c8e86d34f.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/1c...827a79d9c9.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2b/95...24308bb2f3.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f4/94...a015584bb5.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/f0...bf2685fd1a.jpg

GM · 06:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squeak

Small metal cones can be good. Larger not so much.
Mark would have one of his rage fits if he read that though. ;-)

I dunno, the only metal ones I know sound 'HIFI' are for compression horn drivers; for wide range point sources, even tweeters, prefer paper.

I'll say! long ago now, got a PM 'nasty gram' that among other things accused me of

Quote:

“lectured” [name deleted], trying to pressurising [sic] him to your way of thinking. I don’t like or appreciate this style of engagement.

For a variety of reasons didn't waste my time responding, but if my 'style' of educating folks with info that TTBOMK is correct/proven is perceived as 'pressuring', then even 9+ yrs later it's news to me.

GM

waxx · 26th November 2020, 03:29 PM

Well, that is what you an SinGun do, pushing your preference as the truth. But there is no truth, only preference. And i and many like the metal cones when done right.

Not that paper cones sound bad btw, i also have a pair of those great 9710M's waiting for a project (saved from old beaten up speakers) and i heared many paper cone drivers that i like also.

But that oldskool approach that you prefer is not fit for everybody. And shouting that metal cones are the devil is not something constructive i think. Some of the highest rated speakers are metal cones, and your opinion is just an opinion (and so is mine), not the general consensus. It may be that those 10.3M's are not your cup of tea, but for others it is...

SinGun · 09:55 PM

You said your opinion and I mine, so where is the problem? Despite that I have both speakers here playing against each other with different music. Despite of subjective likings it is very clear that AD-9710 is by far more compatible with different kinds of music. Be happy with your 10.3 no problem.

IMO, I don't like female voices sounding like Borg drones...

What you call oldschool approach (AD-9710) is a very successful design still working and still beating the hell out of new-school designs. At least at musicality.

From Philips Fullrange Catalogue 1980

SinGun · 09:41 PM

BTW, 10min before I listened to Patti Austin on 10.3 and now I plugged the AD-9710 in - seriously: For me totally unimaginable how anyone could prefer the 10.3 with female voices.

P.S.: The Alpair 6 sounds very good with this recording. So stop putting words into my mouth (I HATE that!) this is not metal vs paper.

waxx · 26th November 2020, 09:42 PM

I suspect you did not do the burn in of this driver. This driver needs +100hours before it's right with light music. Fresh out of the box it sounds a bit metallic but not after the break-in. This is typical for metallic cones, and the Mark Audio metallic drivers need a lot of break in as stated in the manual and on the spec sheet of it.

SinGun · 26th November 2020, 10:02 PM

Is 600h + enough? I even have a notch filter to smooth out the mids/upper mids. Sorry but for me Alpair 10.3 looses vs AD-9710 big time.

Philips AD-9710 has much better vocals, warmer mids, much much much more textures, more body, bigger gestalt, far better software compatibility. Rolling, rhythmic, involving, not fatiguing, easier on the ear all the time.

IMHO the AD-9710 is by far the better driver.

SinGun · 26th November 2020, 10:42 PM

Notch filter i use with Alpair 10.3: 3R3/10uF/0,22mH parallel
Notch filter i use with AD-9710: 0,56mH series->24R/5.7uF/0,33mH parallel (Gravesen filter)

24th November 2020, 01:16 AM	#22
SinGun diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2017	LOL. After hearing 60 years old FR speakers the chief editor of the German DIY LS magazine Klang & Ton asked: "What did the LS industry done in the last 50 years?". The Alpair 10.3 sounds even worse than cheap Finnish 8 inch Gradient fullrangers. Well, Visaton AL-130 & Alpair 6 are small indeed. Alpair 6 = Best desktop LS I have ever heard, simply fantastic. Gutsy, bold, big gestalt, go really loud, smooth and rhythmic like hell. Last edited by SinGun; 24th November 2020 at 01:23 AM.

26th November 2020, 09:33 PM	#26
SinGun diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2017	You said your opinion and I mine, so where is the problem? Despite that I have both speakers here playing against each other with different music. Despite of subjective likings it is very clear that AD-9710 is by far more compatible with different kinds of music. Be happy with your 10.3 no problem. IMO, I don't like female voices sounding like Borg drones... What you call oldschool approach (AD-9710) is a very successful design still working and still beating the hell out of new-school designs. At least at musicality. From Philips Fullrange Catalogue 1980 Last edited by SinGun; 26th November 2020 at 09:55 PM.

26th November 2020, 09:37 PM	#27
SinGun diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2017	BTW, 10min before I listened to Patti Austin on 10.3 and now I plugged the AD-9710 in - seriously: For me totally unimaginable how anyone could prefer the 10.3 with female voices. P.S.: The Alpair 6 sounds very good with this recording. So stop putting words into my mouth (I HATE that!) this is not metal vs paper. Last edited by SinGun; 26th November 2020 at 09:41 PM.

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24th November 2020, 12:57 AM	#21
Squeak diyAudio Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Frederiksberg	Small metal cones can be good. Larger not so much. Mark would have one of his rage fits if he read that though. ;-)

24th November 2020, 02:55 AM	#23
SinGun diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2017	Philips catalogue from the year of the lord 1980: https://i.pinimg.com/originals/15/fe...1c8e86d34f.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/1c...827a79d9c9.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2b/95...24308bb2f3.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f4/94...a015584bb5.jpg https://i.pinimg.com/originals/82/f0...bf2685fd1a.jpg

26th November 2020, 03:29 PM	#25
waxx diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Wodecq, Belgium	Well, that is what you an SinGun do, pushing your preference as the truth. But there is no truth, only preference. And i and many like the metal cones when done right. Not that paper cones sound bad btw, i also have a pair of those great 9710M's waiting for a project (saved from old beaten up speakers) and i heared many paper cone drivers that i like also. But that oldskool approach that you prefer is not fit for everybody. And shouting that metal cones are the devil is not something constructive i think. Some of the highest rated speakers are metal cones, and your opinion is just an opinion (and so is mine), not the general consensus. It may be that those 10.3M's are not your cup of tea, but for others it is...

26th November 2020, 09:42 PM	#28
waxx diyAudio Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Wodecq, Belgium	I suspect you did not do the burn in of this driver. This driver needs +100hours before it's right with light music. Fresh out of the box it sounds a bit metallic but not after the break-in. This is typical for metallic cones, and the Mark Audio metallic drivers need a lot of break in as stated in the manual and on the spec sheet of it.

26th November 2020, 10:02 PM	#29
SinGun diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2017	Is 600h + enough? I even have a notch filter to smooth out the mids/upper mids. Sorry but for me Alpair 10.3 looses vs AD-9710 big time. Philips AD-9710 has much better vocals, warmer mids, much much much more textures, more body, bigger gestalt, far better software compatibility. Rolling, rhythmic, involving, not fatiguing, easier on the ear all the time. IMHO the AD-9710 is by far the better driver.

26th November 2020, 10:42 PM	#30
SinGun diyAudio Member Join Date: May 2017	Notch filter i use with Alpair 10.3: 3R3/10uF/0,22mH parallel Notch filter i use with AD-9710: 0,56mH series->24R/5.7uF/0,33mH parallel (Gravesen filter)