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Philips 9710 M/8 new enclosure help.
Philips 9710 M/8 new enclosure help.
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Old 24th November 2020, 12:57 AM   #21
Squeak is offline Squeak  Denmark
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Small metal cones can be good. Larger not so much.
Mark would have one of his rage fits if he read that though. ;-)
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Old 24th November 2020, 01:16 AM   #22
SinGun is offline SinGun  Russian Federation
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LOL. After hearing 60 years old FR speakers the chief editor of the German DIY LS magazine Klang & Ton asked: "What did the LS industry done in the last 50 years?".

The Alpair 10.3 sounds even worse than cheap Finnish 8 inch Gradient fullrangers.

Well, Visaton AL-130 & Alpair 6 are small indeed. Alpair 6 = Best desktop LS I have ever heard, simply fantastic. Gutsy, bold, big gestalt, go really loud, smooth and rhythmic like hell.

Last edited by SinGun; 24th November 2020 at 01:23 AM.
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Old 24th November 2020, 06:17 AM   #24
GM is offline GM  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeak View Post
Small metal cones can be good. Larger not so much.
Mark would have one of his rage fits if he read that though. ;-)
I dunno, the only metal ones I know sound 'HIFI' are for compression horn drivers; for wide range point sources, even tweeters, prefer paper.

I'll say! long ago now, got a PM 'nasty gram' that among other things accused me of
Quote:
“lectured” [name deleted], trying to pressurising [sic] him to your way of thinking. I don’t like or appreciate this style of engagement.
For a variety of reasons didn't waste my time responding, but if my 'style' of educating folks with info that TTBOMK is correct/proven is perceived as 'pressuring', then even 9+ yrs later it's news to me.

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Last edited by GM; 24th November 2020 at 06:39 AM.
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Old 26th November 2020, 03:29 PM   #25
waxx is offline waxx  Belgium
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Well, that is what you an SinGun do, pushing your preference as the truth. But there is no truth, only preference. And i and many like the metal cones when done right.

Not that paper cones sound bad btw, i also have a pair of those great 9710M's waiting for a project (saved from old beaten up speakers) and i heared many paper cone drivers that i like also.

But that oldskool approach that you prefer is not fit for everybody. And shouting that metal cones are the devil is not something constructive i think. Some of the highest rated speakers are metal cones, and your opinion is just an opinion (and so is mine), not the general consensus. It may be that those 10.3M's are not your cup of tea, but for others it is...
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Old 26th November 2020, 09:33 PM   #26
SinGun is offline SinGun  Russian Federation
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You said your opinion and I mine, so where is the problem? Despite that I have both speakers here playing against each other with different music. Despite of subjective likings it is very clear that AD-9710 is by far more compatible with different kinds of music. Be happy with your 10.3 no problem.

IMO, I don't like female voices sounding like Borg drones...

What you call oldschool approach (AD-9710) is a very successful design still working and still beating the hell out of new-school designs. At least at musicality.

Click the image to open in full size.

From Philips Fullrange Catalogue 1980

Last edited by SinGun; 26th November 2020 at 09:55 PM.
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Old 26th November 2020, 09:37 PM   #27
SinGun is offline SinGun  Russian Federation
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BTW, 10min before I listened to Patti Austin on 10.3 and now I plugged the AD-9710 in - seriously: For me totally unimaginable how anyone could prefer the 10.3 with female voices.

P.S.: The Alpair 6 sounds very good with this recording. So stop putting words into my mouth (I HATE that!) this is not metal vs paper.

Last edited by SinGun; 26th November 2020 at 09:41 PM.
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Old 26th November 2020, 09:42 PM   #28
waxx is offline waxx  Belgium
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I suspect you did not do the burn in of this driver. This driver needs +100hours before it's right with light music. Fresh out of the box it sounds a bit metallic but not after the break-in. This is typical for metallic cones, and the Mark Audio metallic drivers need a lot of break in as stated in the manual and on the spec sheet of it.
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Old 26th November 2020, 10:02 PM   #29
SinGun is offline SinGun  Russian Federation
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Is 600h + enough? I even have a notch filter to smooth out the mids/upper mids. Sorry but for me Alpair 10.3 looses vs AD-9710 big time.

Philips AD-9710 has much better vocals, warmer mids, much much much more textures, more body, bigger gestalt, far better software compatibility. Rolling, rhythmic, involving, not fatiguing, easier on the ear all the time.

IMHO the AD-9710 is by far the better driver.
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Old 26th November 2020, 10:42 PM   #30
SinGun is offline SinGun  Russian Federation
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Notch filter i use with Alpair 10.3: 3R3/10uF/0,22mH parallel
Notch filter i use with AD-9710: 0,56mH series->24R/5.7uF/0,33mH parallel (Gravesen filter)
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