I think the OP is looking for lower cost speakers and in my mind both Mark Audio and Fostex are not what I consider low cost. My suggestion is to go with a Vifa TC9FD at $12 ea (in US). Look at the mini Karlsonator thread which uses dual drivers and is perfectly able to be driven with LM3886 amp. Many satisfied builds in this thread so it is a proven design. It can be made of wood and looks and sounds terrific. I would suggest the TPA3116D2 amp which sounds better than the LM3886 and will give 40 watts/ch with cheap laptop power supply, so for $20 in keeping with the low cost approach.
More info here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/239338-mini-karlsonator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds.html
Latest construction by Francisco Perez in Baltic birch:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...sonator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-55.html#post3878194
You will actually be hard pressed to find a better performing 3.5 inch full range driver at a higher price. There is a possible exception with the Faital Pro 4FE35 that has recently become available. Use of that driver in a mini Karlsonator will result in a 97 dB sensitivity speaker (at 2.83v). But they cost 2x the Vifa's.
I hope you give it a try.
More info here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/239338-mini-karlsonator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds.html
Latest construction by Francisco Perez in Baltic birch:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...sonator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-55.html#post3878194
You will actually be hard pressed to find a better performing 3.5 inch full range driver at a higher price. There is a possible exception with the Faital Pro 4FE35 that has recently become available. Use of that driver in a mini Karlsonator will result in a 97 dB sensitivity speaker (at 2.83v). But they cost 2x the Vifa's.
I hope you give it a try.
2-Ways Visaton BG's and others. If you need calculations for an ideal internal volume (net) for that driver I can provide one. 
BG 20 - 8 Ohm
MB 208/H
DIY audio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/252559-bg20-fake-druid.html
Modifikation Visaton BG 20, Lautsprecher - HIFI-FORUM
BG 20 - 8 Ohm
MB 208/H
DIY audio
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/252559-bg20-fake-druid.html
Modifikation Visaton BG 20, Lautsprecher - HIFI-FORUM
Not sure what you're looking for, but here's a suggestion from the Parts Express website
"For great bass performance, install the BG20 into a 1.06 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 42 Hz with a 2.5" diameter port that is 5.75" long."
Visaton BG20-8 8" Full-Range Speaker with Whizzer Cone | 292-548
Mike
"For great bass performance, install the BG20 into a 1.06 cubic foot cabinet tuned to 42 Hz with a 2.5" diameter port that is 5.75" long."
Visaton BG20-8 8" Full-Range Speaker with Whizzer Cone | 292-548
Mike
Visaton BG 20 - Alignment for reflex vs. sealed
First your driver "shows" as a good recipe for, unexpectedly, a TL or quater wave. I don't personally do that type, but just that you know, that type of project is also favorable for the Visaton BG 20. Another type that a lot of Audiophiles have a lot of experience... experimenting, is the Aperiodic Enclosure. This is also a expected win-win situation. I know it's used in the "background" (read, underground circuits of high-fidelity) for it's archrival the Visaton B 200 - 6 Ohm (google on youTube). I also never tested it, but it reproduces a bigger box or/and more control on the driver without such big noticeable LF peaks.
Now to the driver enclosure and it's alignment:
For a reflex speaker I would trash the projects in Parts Express and Visaton
Visaton BG20-8 8" Full-Range Speaker with Whizzer Cone | 292-548
BG 20 - 8 Ohm
...and go with a new one. Second, the reflex speaker should be as big as you can get, since this speaker, full-range is also a good woofer. I know that this is not good for the upper frequencies 200/300 Hz and up in range, but that's it's nature. So taking advantage of that, let's say that you can stand with a ~60 L., then. This DRIVER can produce infrasound, it's as stupid as it get's... but it's true.
Visaton BG 20, VB = 64.0 L, FB = 30.0 Hz, 92.6 dB/2.83V/m
If you can menage that type of foot print, then this is a good start. Then you decide. You don't need to do it today. Some people use subs, that in this case is not necessary. If you want to do that you will have to filter your FR driver, or use a very small speaker, better, make a sealed speaker.
Reflex: 64L@30Hz
Ports: 2x
Diameter: 4.4 cm (surface, if using a rectangle 30.41 cm^2)
Length: 11.67 cm
Distance between ports: 10 cm
Data important for the plans:
displacement of driver: 8 inch - 1.0 liter
volume of 2 ports: 0.4 liters
Total speaker volume: ~65 L (net)
If you want you can use the same exact ports from Visaton linked here below. If you notice they are 5/6 cm internal, and you are going to use the full 19cm length. Make it 2x ports each speaker also (4xpair), as above. Visaton port reference: BR 19.24
Or 2x ports: 5,5 cm/D x 19 cm/L
Yes, interesting driver, but not easy. It might take (for you) a few months until getting and experimenting what you want, and also waiting from some of the other members feedback.
First your driver "shows" as a good recipe for, unexpectedly, a TL or quater wave. I don't personally do that type, but just that you know, that type of project is also favorable for the Visaton BG 20. Another type that a lot of Audiophiles have a lot of experience... experimenting, is the Aperiodic Enclosure. This is also a expected win-win situation. I know it's used in the "background" (read, underground circuits of high-fidelity)
for it's archrival the Visaton B 200 - 6 Ohm (google on youTube). I also never tested it, but it reproduces a bigger box or/and more control on the driver without such big noticeable LF peaks.Now to the driver enclosure and it's alignment:
For a reflex speaker I would trash the projects in Parts Express and Visaton
Visaton BG20-8 8" Full-Range Speaker with Whizzer Cone | 292-548
BG 20 - 8 Ohm
...and go with a new one. Second, the reflex speaker should be as big as you can get, since this speaker, full-range is also a good woofer. I know that this is not good for the upper frequencies 200/300 Hz and up in range, but that's it's nature. So taking advantage of that, let's say that you can stand with a ~60 L., then. This DRIVER can produce infrasound, it's as stupid as it get's... but it's true.
Visaton BG 20, VB = 64.0 L, FB = 30.0 Hz, 92.6 dB/2.83V/m
If you can menage that type of foot print, then this is a good start. Then you decide. You don't need to do it today. Some people use subs, that in this case is not necessary. If you want to do that you will have to filter your FR driver, or use a very small speaker, better, make a sealed speaker.
Reflex: 64L@30Hz
Ports: 2x
Diameter: 4.4 cm (surface, if using a rectangle 30.41 cm^2)
Length: 11.67 cm
Distance between ports: 10 cm
Data important for the plans:
displacement of driver: 8 inch - 1.0 liter
volume of 2 ports: 0.4 liters
Total speaker volume: ~65 L (net)
If you want you can use the same exact ports from Visaton linked here below. If you notice they are 5/6 cm internal, and you are going to use the full 19cm length. Make it 2x ports each speaker also (4xpair), as above. Visaton port reference: BR 19.24
Or 2x ports: 5,5 cm/D x 19 cm/L
Attachments
Last edited:
I've played with BG20 in two existing enclosures where it was nice despite un-optimal - 65 liters tall ML-TL would be good -
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4784/bg20front.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Xe6He6A.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/4784/bg20front.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Xe6He6A.jpg
--
Hi freddi!
Which of these two speakers sound better?
If possible please give a sketch of the speaker
thank you
Hi Radio,
You asked in post 12 if somebody new this design etc. I am playing with almost the same enclosure with a Philips AD9710m/8 and I just loving it ( this driver is legendary and is used in many enclosure designs...sonab, karlson, diffent Philips enclosure et.etc.)
I have build the small Briggs cabinet around it and a Karlson cabinet. The TQWT for me is the winner although the Karloson come close an has one huge advantage that is a LOT smaller.
BTW...the visaton is also a very nice speaker, there also lots of different builds around to read about.... I am going to use pair in an open baffle.
You asked in post 12 if somebody new this design etc. I am playing with almost the same enclosure with a Philips AD9710m/8 and I just loving it ( this driver is legendary and is used in many enclosure designs...sonab, karlson, diffent Philips enclosure et.etc.)
I have build the small Briggs cabinet around it and a Karlson cabinet. The TQWT for me is the winner although the Karloson come close an has one huge advantage that is a LOT smaller.
BTW...the visaton is also a very nice speaker, there also lots of different builds around to read about.... I am going to use pair in an open baffle.
hi radio - - (I've misplaced a camera - need it to explain the fake Driud pipe)
a few years ago, Greg B. proposed making a Karlson type with different goals than the original (lower frequency extension) and that type ended up being called "The Karlsonator". The original Karlson 15 inch enclosure was prototyped and finalized in the summer of 1951 by John E. Karlson and Wayne Green.
Karlsonator 8 plan
http://i.imgur.com/tnbO9Yy.png
Karlsonator 8 build with Visaton BG20
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.645456515500837.1073741837.601735219872967&type=3
(I would extend the aperture slot nearly or all the way to the top)
free air impedance and Qts for Visaton BG20
http://i.imgur.com/fhZ51NQ.gif
size and aspect comparison of Karlsonator 8 to Karlson K12- from what I can gather, the original K12
aspect has ~2-5dB more "hit" than the skinny enclosure from a rise in the 110 to 220Hz octave when each
cabinet was loaded with a Tangband W8-1772 - that was observed with this "SK8" enclosure using a regular reflex vent and which has the same frontal dimensions as the Karlsonator 8. The Karlsonator 8 may behave somewhat different than my reflex tall K8.
here's something I thought interesting, the later model Eminence Beta10cx compared directly to a BG20 with
each in a K12 type - from this measuring position, they look nearly identical in response in the woofer region.
1954 Karlsonette (early K12) plan
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8316/karlsonetteib7.png
Karlson K12 plan with distributed slot vent
http://public.bn1304.livefilestore....Gaq4/transductor-bo.jpg?psid=1&rdrts=72227597
Karlson brochure - probably from the late 1960s - the Karlson "Ultra Fidelity" line of cabinets was made in sizes for 8 inch to 18 inch speakers
http://imageshack.us/a/img140/7778/foldoutpage1web.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img204/8770/foldoutpage2web.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img338/7135/foldoutpage3web.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img821/4871/foldoutpage4web.jpg
BG 20 in Druid size straight pipe impedance. Tuning is adjusted by adjusting the spike feet height from the floor or carpet - this impedance graph was taken without pipe fill - - just 2.5CM bonded Dacron in most of the pipe.
I have a fair amount of "polyfil" Dacron in the pipe now and IMO it sounds good with BG20
Karlson's ideally need some unobstructive space - in my very cramped toy-room, the tall pipe is more practical - although its small, it may be large enough to work - I'll try to graph it to look for any low end peaking.
The Druid type pipe I think is fully open on the bottom - so the base plate provides the tuning needed and that is adjusted with spike height. This also subjectively controls system damping to some degree. btw, the Druid pipe is about the same volume as a Karlson K12's rear chamber.
Outdoors low frequency performance of fake Druid pipe with the early model Eminence B102
-the reason the graph ended so abruptly was that I used 8K sampling
a few years ago, Greg B. proposed making a Karlson type with different goals than the original (lower frequency extension) and that type ended up being called "The Karlsonator". The original Karlson 15 inch enclosure was prototyped and finalized in the summer of 1951 by John E. Karlson and Wayne Green.
Karlsonator 8 plan
http://i.imgur.com/tnbO9Yy.png
Karlsonator 8 build with Visaton BG20
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.645456515500837.1073741837.601735219872967&type=3
(I would extend the aperture slot nearly or all the way to the top)
free air impedance and Qts for Visaton BG20
http://i.imgur.com/fhZ51NQ.gif
size and aspect comparison of Karlsonator 8 to Karlson K12- from what I can gather, the original K12
aspect has ~2-5dB more "hit" than the skinny enclosure from a rise in the 110 to 220Hz octave when each
cabinet was loaded with a Tangband W8-1772 - that was observed with this "SK8" enclosure using a regular reflex vent and which has the same frontal dimensions as the Karlsonator 8. The Karlsonator 8 may behave somewhat different than my reflex tall K8.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
here's something I thought interesting, the later model Eminence Beta10cx compared directly to a BG20 with
each in a K12 type - from this measuring position, they look nearly identical in response in the woofer region.
1954 Karlsonette (early K12) plan
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/8316/karlsonetteib7.png
Karlson K12 plan with distributed slot vent
http://public.bn1304.livefilestore....Gaq4/transductor-bo.jpg?psid=1&rdrts=72227597
Karlson brochure - probably from the late 1960s - the Karlson "Ultra Fidelity" line of cabinets was made in sizes for 8 inch to 18 inch speakers
http://imageshack.us/a/img140/7778/foldoutpage1web.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img204/8770/foldoutpage2web.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img338/7135/foldoutpage3web.jpg
http://imageshack.us/a/img821/4871/foldoutpage4web.jpg
BG 20 in Druid size straight pipe impedance. Tuning is adjusted by adjusting the spike feet height from the floor or carpet - this impedance graph was taken without pipe fill - - just 2.5CM bonded Dacron in most of the pipe.
I have a fair amount of "polyfil" Dacron in the pipe now and IMO it sounds good with BG20
Karlson's ideally need some unobstructive space - in my very cramped toy-room, the tall pipe is more practical - although its small, it may be large enough to work - I'll try to graph it to look for any low end peaking.
The Druid type pipe I think is fully open on the bottom - so the base plate provides the tuning needed and that is adjusted with spike height. This also subjectively controls system damping to some degree. btw, the Druid pipe is about the same volume as a Karlson K12's rear chamber.
Outdoors low frequency performance of fake Druid pipe with the early model Eminence B102
-the reason the graph ended so abruptly was that I used 8K sampling
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
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