Ultra wide horizontal dispersion cabinet design?

[kenpeter]

That radial thing will stop a dart too, I suppose.

But no vertical pattern control will waste a lot
of energy in irrelevant directions. With wide
horizontal already, do we desire the double
whammy omni dispersion against sensitivity?

The more we spread highs to directions they
don't normally go, the more Eq and amplifier
headroom to maintain a flat response.

 

[CZ Eddie]

Those are some pretty neat ideas.
No, I haven't started a build yet.
But I have narrowed things down.

My max dimensions were changed up on me again.
Height can't be more than 30"
Width cant' be more than 12".
Depth is still fine at 20".

So I'm currently looking at getting four inexpensive "car stereo" type 5 1/4" or 6.5" coaxials and putting them into four individual very small Karlson enclosures. One between each of the five dart machines.

Budget did get bumped to $40 for drivers only.

 

[xrk971]

You are better off with Karlsonator which can scale well whereas Karlson K15 style boxes cannot be scaled. Can I ask why your budget is so small considering this is a commercial application for your pub? Those car audio coaxials will be very high Qts which doesn't work so well in a Karlsonator unless it is really optimized (modeled).

 

[CZ Eddie]

You are better off with Karlsonator which can scale well whereas Karlson K15 style boxes cannot be scaled. Can I ask why your budget is so small considering this is a commercial application for your pub? Those car audio coaxials will be very high Qts which doesn't work so well in a Karlsonator unless it is really optimized (modeled).

Yes, Karlsonator 6 is the most likely choice right now.
I posted specs for a low QTS/high VAS 6.5" driver over at fullrangedriver.com that I think will work great in a Karlsonator. If you get a chance, would you look at it?

Budget is small because this is a patrons request, not the bar management.
The bar already has a speaker setup. The darts players want something just for our own area so we can listen to sporting events while everyone else in the bar listens to music. And we'll use it for some music also.

 

[OffGridKindaGuy]

I'll get my feet wet.. Looking outside of the box..

Consider some wall mounted Single Point Stereo Ceiling Speakers. I use these in general coverage applications and they are great! Good sound and simple. (Not separated stereo but..) 4 would bring you down to 2 ohms but the Lepai LP-2020A+ will handle it. (At moderate vol. levels) Mounted in a .2-.5 Sq. Ft. stuffed box, they'd sound good enough, IMO. Might not shake the walls but full..

Within budget and be careful with phasing when connecting them..

MCM Custom Audio 6 1/2'' Single Point Stereo Ceiling Speaker - 50W RMS | 50-14020 (5014020) | MCM Custom Audio

 

[freddi]

speaking of ceiling - here was one famous design which used a 6x9 - one would have to be mounted high

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[CZ Eddie]

You guys were all so helpful that I felt I should give you an update.

I discovered that I had a pair of the popular budget speakers Insignia NS-B2111 tucked away in storage in my garage.
I'd forgotten all about them!
One has a blown tweeter while the other is fine.
So I bought two additional NS-B2111 for $25 shipped.

This gives me four 6.5" home-audio coaxials, three of which have working tweeters. All for $25.
I figure this should do. One each in a cabinet between each of the five dart machines.
I'm currently building a foam-core Karlsonator K6 enclosure to test the speakers in.
I'll probably build a couple other enclosures to test with if this doesn't work well.

Here's my post over at fullrangedriver.com
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3464


If you guys can think of an amp for $15-$25 to power each of these four 8ohm speakers.....?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the t/s specs on this Insignia NS-B2111 6.5" driver are very close to what we want in a Karlson?

Qts = 0.527 Total Q
Qes = 0.609 Electrical Q
Qms = 3.932 Mechanical Q
Fs = 45.976 Hertz, Free Air Resonance
Res = 6.65 Ohms, DC resistance
Ls = 0 H, series inductance
Lp = 0 H, lossy series inductance
Rp = 0 Ohms, loss across Lp
Dia = 165m meters, effective
(%shift) 28.9 %, resonance with mass
Vas = 76.12 litres, air volume equivalent
mms = 10.10 grams, effective mass
cms = 1.185m m/N, compliance
bl = 5.647 T*m, motor strength
n0 = 1.168 %, max efficiency
SplSens = 92.67 dBSPL max @1W absorbed
(Added mass) 10 grams

---I got the specs from post #95 in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/81277-nother-reason-not-diy-2.html

---A good writeup on the speaker:
Insignia Upgrade

---Internet reviewer:
My Review of Insignias NS-B211

---Test info and modding the speaker part 1:
Insignia Coaxial 2-Way

---Test info and modding the speaker part 2:
Insignia Coaxial 2-Way Crossover Designs

---Revised crossover mods:
MurphyBlaster Productions




As you can see, there is tons of data out there on these speakers.

So how do you acquire these speakers?
Not easily, unfortunately. They are no longer sold new.
But if you keep tabs on Craiglist or eBay, they do pop up rather frequently.
These originally sold new for as low as $35/pair. But they've picked up a following and now go for a bit more on the used market if the seller knows what they have.
Oddly enough, I actually have a pair of these in my garage that I'd forgotten about. One has a blown(?) tweeter though.

So if I'm correct and the specs match up well for Karlson cabinets, then would one of you be willing to model these in Akabak and suggest an optimum enclosure size? Maybe the Karlsonator K6 or something similar?

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[lloydrmc]

So what ended up happening here? I plan on using this same speaker (as mentioned before) on my own project(s) as well 4.5 Inch 10W 8 Ohm Full Range Pincushion Speaker | XF-119-208 (XF119208) | Distributed By MCM

Also, I wonder about using a small folded horn like this:
http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/TangBand_W6-1139SC_38Hz_TH_Rev_1.pdf

or this:
http://www.volvotreter.de/downloads/TangBand_W6-1139SC_Horn_Rev_1.pdf

 

[xrk971]

You guys were all so helpful that I felt I should give you an update.

I discovered that I had a pair of the popular budget speakers Insignia NS-B2111 tucked away in storage in my garage.
I'd forgotten all about them!
One has a blown tweeter while the other is fine.
So I bought two additional NS-B2111 for $25 shipped.

This gives me four 6.5" home-audio coaxials, three of which have working tweeters. All for $25.
I figure this should do. One each in a cabinet between each of the five dart machines.
I'm currently building a foam-core Karlsonator K6 enclosure to test the speakers in.
I'll probably build a couple other enclosures to test with if this doesn't work well.

Here's my post over at fullrangedriver.com
http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3464


If you guys can think of an amp for $15-$25 to power each of these four 8ohm speakers.....?

Nice score on those speakers. Get me the T/S params in the woofer and I will design thee Karlsonator for it. For amps go with the TPA3116D2. $15ea. Here is the one I use.
Online Shop Free Shipping! 1pc TPA3116 Class D digital amplifier 50W +50 W with Silent Sleep Design|Aliexpress Mobile

 

[lloydrmc]

I know this has been resolved, and I just HAD to post this. From the "nothing new under the sun" department, in this case the June, 1957 "Popular Mechanics", page 142-144 "A Four Speaker Bass Reflex Enclosure". From the article: "The system consists of four identical 5-in. speakers mounted in a bass reflex cabinet. Each speaker is mounted at an angle so that the high-frequency sound beams cover an angle of 120 deg. as compared to the 30-deg dispersion angle of single speakers"


Though it calls for five inch speakers, I bet our favorite little MCM electronics driver would work. In fact, I'm tempted to build it, just to find out: Popular Mechanics - Google Books

 

[lloydrmc]

BTW Eddie, that link http://fullrangedriver.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=3464 is broken

 

[Bob Brines]

Fullrangedriver.com has gone away. The owner lost his IP and there is doubt that it will ever come back

 

[CZ Eddie]

Wow, that sucks to hear about FullRangeDriver. It was an invaluable resource and full of good people.

My project lost its footing due to issues trying to get audio signal to the area needed. The TV's ended up not having audio routed to them, so the only audio source was from an office on the other end of the building and the Manager of the location wouldn't give me permission to run audio cable through the attic.

 

[OffGridKindaGuy]

Consider an FM Modulator to broadcast the audio to where you need it.

 

[Bob Brines]

Wow, that sucks to hear about FullRangeDriver. It was an invaluable resource and full of good people.

Yes it was. Then eccentrics took over the site and drove off the most knowledgeable participants. It sort of faded away after that. The present forum is at risk of the same thing happening. Remember that the Madisound forum used to be the place to go for good information. Now it is practically dead.

Bob

 

[31697B]

speaking of ceiling - here was one famous design which used a 6x9 - one would have to be mounted high
]

I found that the distributed overhead method to be better because the SPL at each area is nearly the same everywhere..... and each overhead does not have to use high power -- cleaner sound. Also, cleaner sound with more direct sound rather than reflected sound.

THx-RNMarsh

 

[lloydrmc]

The present forum is at risk of the same thing happening. Remember that the Madisound forum used to be the place to go for good information. Now it is practically dead.

Bob

THIS forum? I just don't see that, though I am seldom here. There was some snarkyness in this thread, though I would deem it fairly minimal.