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The Nautaloss Ref Monitor
The Nautaloss Ref Monitor
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Old 3rd May 2014, 11:27 PM   #511
BuildMeSomething is offline BuildMeSomething  United Kingdom
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The 45 blocks is a good idea... will see how this could be developed and try it in FC
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Old 4th May 2014, 12:04 AM   #512
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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BMS,
Yes, a FC prototype would be very useful to see if it works. Looking forward to seeing your build soon then. In the meantime have fun with your FC Nautaloss speakers. . Which driver are you using presently?
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Old 4th May 2014, 09:17 AM   #513
BuildMeSomething is offline BuildMeSomething  United Kingdom
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Currently the Faital Pro 4FE35... trying them upside down today and due to measure them also... will keep you posted.

Found a few places who sell the TC7FD at €13.50 each... not much cheaper than the TC9 but worth trying
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Old 4th May 2014, 12:07 PM   #514
BuildMeSomething is offline BuildMeSomething  United Kingdom
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Rubbish day so far...

Set up the Nautaloss for measuring... did a PEQ file in REW from the first measure and loaded it into the miniSharc... after connecting to the plugin, noticed all 4 config's had reset to default and all my previous PEQ file were gone from the computer. Will now have to re-do all my speakers

The 4fe35 is still peaking around 8K but now EQ'ed as part of the BSC... also getting a HD at ~3KHz as the SPL increases... IR looks a lot better, but still not as clean as yours X... curious, what distance do you normally measure at? Doing mine at 1 meter.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg nautaloss_ir_2.jpg (87.8 KB, 546 views)
File Type: jpg nautaloss_hd.jpg (163.6 KB, 539 views)
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Old 4th May 2014, 01:35 PM   #515
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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BMS,
Hey that looks pretty good, your distortion is not bad as it is all around -40 to -50dB. I wonder if it just comes down to construction details and bracing. Did the double thickness baffle help? I did my measurements at close range 24 in 1 m and also around 2m. The IR and HD were better up close but similar in shape. I also got lower bass extension down to about 150 Hz. It may be the lower Qts of the Faital Pro's. I guess the only way to really compare is to put the TC9FD in and see for a direct comparison with my setup and also your Faital's. It should sound pretty nice as you have it but the IR response still shows some ringing. I suspect you may need more foam bracing - the MDF should be better in that regard. If you get a chance did you look at the IR of same driver in OB? Should be cleaner.
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Old 4th May 2014, 02:35 PM   #516
BuildMeSomething is offline BuildMeSomething  United Kingdom
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Going to order some more FC and build more with the TC9FD.

That HD plot was with a XO of 250Hz in place... XO now at 350Hz

Now re-done the 8" Peerless woofer, mMarS A7.3 and Nautaloss 4FE35. Having the 8" driver closer to the floor has really helped in the LF area. At listening distance [~1.6m] and my listening level [~70dB] both mMarS and Nautaloss measure the same... push up the SPL a bit and various distortion peaks appear that are unique to each unit... Again, both are about the same. LF [<350Hz] on the mMarS & woofer has now been dropped 1.5dB so is now identical to the Nautaloss measure.

All set up in my listening room now... be interesting if I think there's difference between the two units. The Nautaloss have a slightly narrower baffle, everything else appears equal...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg fr_woofer_spl.jpg (103.1 KB, 529 views)
File Type: jpg naut-4fe35_woofer_hd.jpg (163.6 KB, 486 views)
File Type: jpg mmars_woofer_hd.jpg (159.1 KB, 480 views)
File Type: jpg naut-4fe35_woofer_ir.jpg (106.8 KB, 64 views)
File Type: jpg mmars_woofer_ir.jpg (101.5 KB, 45 views)
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Last edited by BuildMeSomething; 4th May 2014 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 4th May 2014, 03:01 PM   #517
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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BMS,
That looks very good - nice comparison between the two. What is the placement of the speakers? I found that on a 40 in stands (stool) placed about 4 ft from back wall the imaging and soundstage are really good. You can locate the different instruments and location of drum kit, piano, bass, and singer on stage. Your freq response and distortion looks really good now - very nice compared to a much more expensive driver.
Nice work - looking forward to seeing your MDF build.
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Old 4th May 2014, 05:06 PM   #518
BuildMeSomething is offline BuildMeSomething  United Kingdom
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When in use, the FR units get sat atop the woofers, at 73cm [28 3/4"]... the A7.3 are seated at 84cm, the 4fe35 at 96cm... room placement is ~40cm from back wall and ~60cm from side wall. The room is only 2.9m by 3m [small] and I'm due to get bass traps and wide band panel absorbers to help with room modes/reflections, but for now am using 5 memory foam pillows, which do the job well enough...

Imaging is very good, as you say, being able to pick out placement of individual instruments is wonderful. Breadth/depth of the sound stage isn't really effected and can/does often sound like your in a much bigger area. The Nautaloss' imaging sounded slightly better than the mMarS on first listening, but they weren't EQ'ed and the upper mid / HF more dominant.

Wait and see how the TC9FD turn out, I'll make sure to do heavier bracing ...
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Old 11th May 2014, 11:36 PM   #519
BuildMeSomething is offline BuildMeSomething  United Kingdom
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Default Playing with stuffing

Had a nice week of listening to music utilising both the Nautaloss with 4FE35 and the mMarS with A7.3... With EQ, both measure so close to each other it's daft. Listening to them I can't decide which is better, the 4FE35 sounds slightly more forgiving with more raw recordings, the A7.3 having slightly clearer highs... though I'm thinking about a dedicated tweeter for above 6-7KHz.

Re-done the stuffing in the mMarS and added extra to the Nautaloss and it really improved the IR on both... though HD didn't see the same kind of improvement. Enclosure resonance being a dominant factor here for both speakers... REW appeared to be playing up a little this evening, as it has done every so often. The HD peak >5KHz was also present on the mMarS measure ... Plus, during the sweep, there was a pulse in the sweep as it reached the HF area... a full system re-boot normally sorts it out, but didn't have time this evening.

For the cost, roughly 40 a pair, the Nautaloss is an amazing speaker... just my FC building skills dragging it down a notch or two.

Going to look into adding a tweeter [Vifa XT25 BG 60 possibly] into the MDF build. plus, am doing the plans for a curved 58L duel 8" woofer enclosure
Attached Images
File Type: jpg naut-4fe35_woofer_hd_2.jpg (164.1 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg naut-4fe35_woofer_ir_2.jpg (96.8 KB, 56 views)
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Old 12th May 2014, 02:22 AM   #520
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Originally Posted by BuildMeSomething View Post
Had a nice week of listening to music utilising both the Nautaloss with 4FE35 and the mMarS with A7.3... With EQ, both measure so close to each other it's daft. Listening to them I can't decide which is better, the 4FE35 sounds slightly more forgiving with more raw recordings, the A7.3 having slightly clearer highs... though I'm thinking about a dedicated tweeter for above 6-7KHz.

Re-done the stuffing in the mMarS and added extra to the Nautaloss and it really improved the IR on both... though HD didn't see the same kind of improvement. Enclosure resonance being a dominant factor here for both speakers... REW appeared to be playing up a little this evening, as it has done every so often. The HD peak >5KHz was also present on the mMarS measure ... Plus, during the sweep, there was a pulse in the sweep as it reached the HF area... a full system re-boot normally sorts it out, but didn't have time this evening.

For the cost, roughly 40 a pair, the Nautaloss is an amazing speaker... just my FC building skills dragging it down a notch or two.

Going to look into adding a tweeter [Vifa XT25 BG 60 possibly] into the MDF build. plus, am doing the plans for a curved 58L duel 8" woofer enclosure
BMS,
Very nice looking frequency response and IR! It looks like the stuffing was the trick then? It needs it in the spiral tail to absorb the back reflection? That is amazing extension you are getting with the 8 in Peerless woofer. It is flat to 20 Hz? Is that a sealed woofer box? I found that a big EQ of 20dB 0.5Q high shelf at 15khz will bring the tc9FD flat to 20khz. Distortion is not a problem because there is hardly any movement in the cone. Anyhow glad it is working out for you. Looking forward to the Nautaloss dual driver woofer.
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