bob4, you may be onto something about the rear horn.
I like the rear horn you linked to.
but not too keen on the peaks/dips past 1khz.
https://translate.google.com/transl...erndt_Burghards-Viecher/Viech.htm&prev=search
My buddy at work thinks that a tranny line may work for me.
Maybe 100hz all I want out of it.
My idea is using 2x12" (1 as baffle step maybe, maybe not), but put it in a box 15" wide x 24" deep x 50" tall. That way the top driver is the middle of my tv screen as you see in my avatar (sounded best having a tweeter 44-48" high off the floor keeping voices at middle of tv instead of lower corner of the tv).
Something like the tritrix transmission line, but with the opening in back higher up with board, and with double 12's.
I like the rear horn you linked to.
but not too keen on the peaks/dips past 1khz.
https://translate.google.com/transl...erndt_Burghards-Viecher/Viech.htm&prev=search
My buddy at work thinks that a tranny line may work for me.
Maybe 100hz all I want out of it.
My idea is using 2x12" (1 as baffle step maybe, maybe not), but put it in a box 15" wide x 24" deep x 50" tall. That way the top driver is the middle of my tv screen as you see in my avatar (sounded best having a tweeter 44-48" high off the floor keeping voices at middle of tv instead of lower corner of the tv).
Something like the tritrix transmission line, but with the opening in back higher up with board, and with double 12's.
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I run mine with a subwoofer too.
Very pleased with the sound.
I found best price for Fane 12-250TC is at Blue Aran - Professional Sound and Lighting
we use mcm this side of the pond.
Fane International 12" Full Range Woofer 250W RMS | SOVEREIGN 12-250TC (SOVEREIGN 12250TC) | Fane International
I prefer running the fane wide open with the sub, but when crossed at 120-150hz from the receiver, it is definitely less distorted, but the bass instruments have a weird phase shift thing going on.
Fane International 12" Full Range Woofer 250W RMS | SOVEREIGN 12-250TC (SOVEREIGN 12250TC) | Fane International
I prefer running the fane wide open with the sub, but when crossed at 120-150hz from the receiver, it is definitely less distorted, but the bass instruments have a weird phase shift thing going on.
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I didn't bother to measure, but it did well in the little Karlson 12 - I had a resistive pad of bonded Dacron over the 6-slit vent - no boom (no low bass either)- no weird stuff from the front chamber - so a K12 - Fane might work well with a sub. K12s are 24.5"H x 16.75"W x 13.75"D
It played rap all by itself in my Karlsonator 12 (5.3 cubic foot bulk, Fb ~37Hz) but imagine there was some LF peaking
It played rap all by itself in my Karlsonator 12 (5.3 cubic foot bulk, Fb ~37Hz) but imagine there was some LF peaking
Yup.
It has been in my setup for a while now.
As i told my buddy "it does more right than wrong".
It does the full range thing, voices, piano darn nice.
And movies usually have no voice during loud stuff, so it works there too.
And dispersion is limited close to it, I'm thinking it is a plus vs wall reflections.
But get the driver as close to the bottom of the tv as you can as a center channel (in a box to floor).
And yes, it needs eq.
But so did my $200 8" tang band.
Maybe someone is brave enough to cut off the dust cap and try a phase plug.
It has been in my setup for a while now.
As i told my buddy "it does more right than wrong".
It does the full range thing, voices, piano darn nice.
And movies usually have no voice during loud stuff, so it works there too.
And dispersion is limited close to it, I'm thinking it is a plus vs wall reflections.
But get the driver as close to the bottom of the tv as you can as a center channel (in a box to floor).
And yes, it needs eq.
But so did my $200 8" tang band.
Maybe someone is brave enough to cut off the dust cap and try a phase plug.
Hmm.
Based on the limited dispersion past 2khz, with a notch, I think this would be a good candidate for a line array.
See post #288, big hump 1.5khz to 4khz even 30 degrees off axis.
Sitting in my low chair 9' away, I need the box on the floor to be angled up using a 1" block.
Maybe 4 boxes each 14" tall x 34" wide x 21" deep (golden ratios).
I know it is a big box, but would make for 56" tall stack.
my 1 x 12" gets a bit unclear, but I'm used to effortless dynamics (double 15" and horn crossed in at 750hz), so my reference is a bit skewed.
Norman
Based on the limited dispersion past 2khz, with a notch, I think this would be a good candidate for a line array.
See post #288, big hump 1.5khz to 4khz even 30 degrees off axis.
Sitting in my low chair 9' away, I need the box on the floor to be angled up using a 1" block.
Maybe 4 boxes each 14" tall x 34" wide x 21" deep (golden ratios).
I know it is a big box, but would make for 56" tall stack.
my 1 x 12" gets a bit unclear, but I'm used to effortless dynamics (double 15" and horn crossed in at 750hz), so my reference is a bit skewed.
Norman
How is the array coming along? I am a bit curious about the 12-250TC in array type configurations. Potentially considering just 4 of them in a sealed column with some subs underneath, very uncertain about my next step in loudspeakers but this is one of the possible routes to go.
Could you define "gets a bit unclear" a little bit more please?
My past set for years was 2x15" crossed 24db @750hz to a 30" wide horn.
Very dynamic and low distortion.
I'm a bass head, so me and full range drivers don't usually mix.
But running my 12" wide open, bassy music can squash dynamic or make voice not quite as clean.
If i turn on the crossover through the receiver, say 150hz, the setup goes louder than even i thought it could. But drums and bass guitar seem weird. You see my avatar picture ? It would work better if the sub wasn't 6' from the center channel.
I'd love to try an array, but it would be massive and I'd lose my sub (main living room setup).
And I'd lose center chanel under the tv.
Based on the limited dispersion, and -6db db notch @2khz, i think an array would work.
Even my 9x4" really lit up the area with sound, while the 12" keeps voices localized up front due to limited dispersion. I'm suprised no one has found this to be a benefit. I do. A stereo pair would sound good to me due to less side wall bounce.
Norman
Very dynamic and low distortion.
I'm a bass head, so me and full range drivers don't usually mix.
But running my 12" wide open, bassy music can squash dynamic or make voice not quite as clean.
If i turn on the crossover through the receiver, say 150hz, the setup goes louder than even i thought it could. But drums and bass guitar seem weird. You see my avatar picture ? It would work better if the sub wasn't 6' from the center channel.
I'd love to try an array, but it would be massive and I'd lose my sub (main living room setup).
And I'd lose center chanel under the tv.
Based on the limited dispersion, and -6db db notch @2khz, i think an array would work.
Even my 9x4" really lit up the area with sound, while the 12" keeps voices localized up front due to limited dispersion. I'm suprised no one has found this to be a benefit. I do. A stereo pair would sound good to me due to less side wall bounce.
Norman
I am considering maybe 1 x 18" or 2 x 15" for sub duty per channel, but nothing is set in stone, gonna take my time deciding. want to go down the path of less wattage.
So what you're saying is that doing xo to a sub is weird because the sub is too far away from, the Fane. I can relate to this, bass is better in stereo /methinks. I do not understand the argument people use: "you cannot localize frequencies below 150hz", I would argue that: yes you can! but it becomes increasingly harder the further down in frequency you go, it is a gradual transition depending on the wavelenght and placement of the speakers in relation to each other and the room. Bass in mono does not work for me.
I find your point about directivity interesting, and it's most likely a positive thing for me too, side walls are a problem.
So what you're saying is that doing xo to a sub is weird because the sub is too far away from, the Fane. I can relate to this, bass is better in stereo /methinks. I do not understand the argument people use: "you cannot localize frequencies below 150hz", I would argue that: yes you can! but it becomes increasingly harder the further down in frequency you go, it is a gradual transition depending on the wavelenght and placement of the speakers in relation to each other and the room. Bass in mono does not work for me.
I find your point about directivity interesting, and it's most likely a positive thing for me too, side walls are a problem.
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here is a thread comparing 4 12" full ranges (basically pushing for the 250tc).
FANE Sovereign 12-200LT
P.Audio E12-100F
Eminence Beta 12LT
FANE Sovereign 12-250TC
FANE 12-250tc FULL RANGERS - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
and the comparison graph on page 4.
FANE 12-250tc FULL RANGERS - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 4
Seems a difficult comparison due to the different response curves.
Safe to say, most need eq................
FANE Sovereign 12-200LT
P.Audio E12-100F
Eminence Beta 12LT
FANE Sovereign 12-250TC
FANE 12-250tc FULL RANGERS - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 1
and the comparison graph on page 4.
FANE 12-250tc FULL RANGERS - Speakerplans.com Forums - Page 4
Seems a difficult comparison due to the different response curves.
Safe to say, most need eq................
I got 4 of the Fane Sovereign 250-TC. They are amazing even without EQ.
Right now I got them in around 39liters closed (single) which sounds pretty good but I want to use them outdoor for parties also and probably push them hard (xover of course).
Being a closed box I suspect power handling will be poor and the speaker prone to damage.
That's why I decided to probably go ported.
What are the downsides of a ported enclosure sound-wise?
The speaker has high qts?
Right now I got them in around 39liters closed (single) which sounds pretty good but I want to use them outdoor for parties also and probably push them hard (xover of course).
Being a closed box I suspect power handling will be poor and the speaker prone to damage.
That's why I decided to probably go ported.
What are the downsides of a ported enclosure sound-wise?
The speaker has high qts?
Closed box is safer for damage. In a ported box, the driver see free air under the port frequency as opposed to a closed one where damping increases with lower frequency. A port is in fact a resonance so kan be evil. A resonance "add" level - if you want to squeeze every singel dB out of a box - go vented but closed its the highest quality. If you plan to do subs, go closed on the tops if you believe that the box is big enough to go low enough to meet the subs.
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