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Frugel-Horn XL for Alpair 10.3/10p, Fostex FF165wk, more
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Old 31st January 2015, 05:40 AM   #401
Ultralight is offline Ultralight  United States
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Thanks for all the responses on my question of 'smear'. More than I expected. Grateful.

Hope it's OK for follow-up questions.

1. I know it is subjective but what kind of impact does the 'smear' have - especially in precise focused imaging? Part of the allure of full range is the coherence and wondering how this impacts that sense.

2. And given that this is ideally corner loaded and thus, closer to the walls, how does it impact the perception of depth (front/back)? I recently tested a pair of speakers designed to abut right at the back wall. The designer claimed in some extensive personal dialogue that it is designed so that there will be a good communication of depth, in addition to width and height. Well, it did not have much depth at all. Scale left/right yes, but no depth. I found that in my room, speakers need to be at least 3 feet away from the wall (the front driver) to give that sense of depth. The back of the FHs (MK3 and XL) are much closer to the wall though the driver is further away - hence my question.

Thanks!
UL

ps: Chrisb, do wish that there are some graphs of frequency response of the Mk3 vs XL....

Last edited by Ultralight; 31st January 2015 at 06:09 AM.
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Old 31st January 2015, 06:32 AM   #402
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultralight View Post
1. I know it is subjective but what kind of impact does the 'smear' have - especially in precise focused imaging? Part of the allure of full range is the coherence and wondering how this impacts that sense.
It is believed that as low in frequency as this occurs at the ear/brain is less sensitive to it.


Quote:
2. And given that this is ideally corner loaded and thus, closer to the walls, how does it impact the perception of depth (front/back)?
Ideally cornerloaded with FE126 or similar. Less so with other drivers. I have FHXL in play right now. The horns are pushed right back against a set of (FH3) deflectors which puts the driver 7/10m out from the wall.

FH3 or FHXL are much more 3D imagewize with EnABLed drivers (what i listen for to quickly pick EnABLed drivers in a blind test).

I alsolost some of the 3Dness when i substituted my backup DAC for my good one which seems to have failed

Quote:
ps: Chrisb, do wish that there are some graphs of frequency response of the Mk3 vs XL....
Scott may have some sims (for that matter i might as well), but he is on the road right now. Any room measure likely tells you more about the room, and anechoic measures would not paint a realistic picture.

dave
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Old 8th February 2015, 04:59 AM   #403
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Off topic moved here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-...es-ref-fh.html

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Old 8th February 2015, 05:05 AM   #404
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Other off-topic moved here:http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-...x7en-fast.html

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Old 5th March 2015, 09:42 PM   #405
Ultralight is offline Ultralight  United States
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Quick question on the CNC files for the FH-XL.

If one gets the files, can it simply be uploaded for someone with a CNC machine and the CNC machine can simply start routing/cutting out the speaker panels or is there a lot of work still to program the depth of the sheets on the table etc?

Thanks!
UL
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Old 6th March 2015, 04:25 AM   #406
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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No. The CAD file is only a starting point -- it will need to be tweaked for the CNC being used, the cutting tools, etc. Then it is usually read into a program that will convert the drawing into CNC code.

dave
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Old 6th March 2015, 04:52 AM   #407
chrisb is offline chrisb  Canada
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For example, in the production environment in which the FH CNC machined kits are fabricated, the original CAD files may originate as DXF from either Dave's Vectorworks, or my 20 yr old version of AutoSketch, are imported into AutoCAD for verification, saved as DWG, exported to the CAD/CAM suite module Aspan for final conversion to G- code to the Morbidelli Author 600 series point to point router.
In our case, a single CAD drawing can result in optimized cut-plan programs to CNC panel saw, edgebander, and the P-t-P router, as well as bills of materials for all sheet goods, solid wood, specified hardware - drawer slides, hinges, cabinet pulls, etc

Of course every CNC environment is different as to complexity, the ease of programming directly at the machine console, or number of steps required from drawing to pushing of the "run" button.
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Old 6th March 2015, 06:59 AM   #408
Ultralight is offline Ultralight  United States
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Sigh....so it is not plug and play like taking someone's Word document and printing on my printer.

So....roughly how much time do you guys think it would take someone with their CNC rig to set it up and cut?

Thanks!
UL
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Old 6th March 2015, 08:56 AM   #409
hajj is offline hajj  Lebanon
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From my experience with fh3 plans (should be similar in terms of work) it takea a qualified cnc technician anywhere between 5 and 30 minutes depending on how much of the work you can prepare upstream.
For example, I submit a DWG file with the tool offset routing already included in the drawing.
For cutting it takes roughly 3-5 minutes/panel
hope it helps
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Old 6th March 2015, 10:46 AM   #410
Studio Au is offline Studio Au  United Kingdom
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DXF's are better than word documents as they are dimensionally accurate (ever tried printing out a exact shape on a printer?)

I got our guy to redraw the files in SolidWorks, as I wanted rebates on all panels and fancy driver cut-outs.

CNC kits

The output files could be read by any CNC machine.

All they have to do is tell it which side of the line to cut, and the depth of the material/rebate. Any good software works out all the technical tooling bits.

Most cnc/shops will charge a standard set up fee, but all the programming should all easily be done within half hour.

Ive been asked if I would share our CNC DXF. This took our engineer a day to draw out, not sure how Dave feels about making a few quid to offset this. User would also have to pay the donation to DIY audio for the privilege.

Our plan took 20-25mins to cut on a big SCM machine. And uses 1 full 8' x 4' sheet and 1/3rd 8' x 4' sheet.
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