So far I've built Paul Carmodys Amiga and Overnight Sensations. Building the crossovers frustrated me, so naturally full range speakers sound appealing (no pun intended) xD.
For my design I'd like to achieve: a relatively flat frequency response down to 100hz, where a sub will take over, low harmonic distortion- with dominant 2nd order harmonic distortion for a good overall tone, and utilize small speaker drivers for better off-axis response. After looking at numerous drivers at PE, so far the Tang Band W3-1364SA looks like a shoe-in! Zaph's measurements also look promising.
I'll pretty much just use these drivers to experiment and gain ears-on experience with how different enclosures sound. I've read a lot about how different enclosures sound, but have never experienced it yet. For easy and cheap construction, foam core will be used
.
So far the plan is to start out with a constant width transmission line tuned to the fs of the driver as my first enclosure.
My question is: does anyone know if this driver or any full range driver sounds ''good'' without any crossovers/filters, ext? Will filters be absolutely necessary to design, or is the driver alone fine for great sound quality?
Any suggestions/concerns from more experienced forum members will be appreciated!
For my design I'd like to achieve: a relatively flat frequency response down to 100hz, where a sub will take over, low harmonic distortion- with dominant 2nd order harmonic distortion for a good overall tone, and utilize small speaker drivers for better off-axis response. After looking at numerous drivers at PE, so far the Tang Band W3-1364SA looks like a shoe-in! Zaph's measurements also look promising.
I'll pretty much just use these drivers to experiment and gain ears-on experience with how different enclosures sound. I've read a lot about how different enclosures sound, but have never experienced it yet. For easy and cheap construction, foam core will be used
.So far the plan is to start out with a constant width transmission line tuned to the fs of the driver as my first enclosure.
My question is: does anyone know if this driver or any full range driver sounds ''good'' without any crossovers/filters, ext? Will filters be absolutely necessary to design, or is the driver alone fine for great sound quality?
Any suggestions/concerns from more experienced forum members will be appreciated!
you could try mark audio chr70.3
I started 'full-range' with good-old monacor sph60x which drops out at higher frequencies but very good voices and a decent linear excursion.
Now I listen to mark audio CHR70.3. Increadible for it's size. Very wide band, not the least on the lower side.
About ten (!) times the linear excursion of the tangband...
I had a hard time keeping volume down during burn-in as adviced.
Oh right, I use it with the best filter avialable: none whatsoever.
I started 'full-range' with good-old monacor sph60x which drops out at higher frequencies but very good voices and a decent linear excursion.
Now I listen to mark audio CHR70.3. Increadible for it's size. Very wide band, not the least on the lower side.
About ten (!) times the linear excursion of the tangband...
I had a hard time keeping volume down during burn-in as adviced.
Oh right, I use it with the best filter avialable: none whatsoever.
I'm currently drooling over the Alpair 10P-A myself. I'd probably attempt a MLTL-type enclosure. Those drivers aren't cheap, though.
~Tom
~Tom
Id suggest the Alpair 7 if the budget permits. Perhaps the CHR70 if your looking for a lower cost alternative, although Ive yet to audition them.
I run a pair of Alpair 7s crossed to a subwoofer at 150hz in my living room setup and have 0 complaints. IMHO they are many magnitudes better than most cheap/mid priced multiways I've heard and look great to boot! With a subwoofer handling the bottom end, they play quite loud and handle complex music with ease. The top end is quite something, I've never felt I was missing that tweeter "sparkle".
The Fountek fr88ex is another fine driver, although I felt it needed some filter work on the top end to smooth the slightly ragged response. A great driver no less, although the cost seems to have crept up, and there may be better options for less money.
The Aura NS3 is another interesting choice in the lower price range. Although the top end leaves something to be desired. I run a pair in my bedroom setup and they do well for videogames and movies.
I run a pair of Alpair 7s crossed to a subwoofer at 150hz in my living room setup and have 0 complaints. IMHO they are many magnitudes better than most cheap/mid priced multiways I've heard and look great to boot! With a subwoofer handling the bottom end, they play quite loud and handle complex music with ease. The top end is quite something, I've never felt I was missing that tweeter "sparkle".
The Fountek fr88ex is another fine driver, although I felt it needed some filter work on the top end to smooth the slightly ragged response. A great driver no less, although the cost seems to have crept up, and there may be better options for less money.
The Aura NS3 is another interesting choice in the lower price range. Although the top end leaves something to be desired. I run a pair in my bedroom setup and they do well for videogames and movies.
Yeah for varying reasons I've eliminated the Aura NS3 (Lots of harmonic Distortion under 200hz, lacks extension after 10k Hz, High 3rd order harmonic distortion), HiViB3 (Spike in frequency response around 8k Hz, High 3rd order harmonic distortion), and the Fountek fr88ex (scared 20-40k response will blow my ears out without knowing it}
What do you guys think of the Markaudio CHR-70A v.3 vs Tang Band W3-1364SA?
I'm also torn by the Tang Band 1337. The harmonic distortion, linearity, and bass extension is absolutely incredible. If it wasn't for that darn FR megaspike after 7k.
What do you guys think of the Markaudio CHR-70A v.3 vs Tang Band W3-1364SA?
I'm also torn by the Tang Band 1337. The harmonic distortion, linearity, and bass extension is absolutely incredible. If it wasn't for that darn FR megaspike after 7k.
Last edited:
Small speakers...hhhmm...tweeters!
Sub....woofers.
There's a line that starts from 1 speaker + 0 components and continues to 2 speakers and some components...and the relative pros and cons have been already examined in this thread. You have the components-like the OSensation- that may fit for another project, like the TL enclosure mentioned.
Having two pairs of speakers on hand, would really make the joy of the novice experimenter: a handful of components to mix & match the drivers.
What a fun
:
Not much to add, but I'm with the others who recommended a Mark Audio driver. I have a pair of CHP-70 gen.2's in a slim classic GR http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/CGR-dKal-El703-300611.pdf that I'm very happy with. The MA drivers are designed specifically to be FR and if I'm not mistaken, BSC is taken into account in the design, so there's no need to build a "circuit" for it.
Mike
Mike
Huh? You realize pretty much all Full rangers have these qualities right? That's actually the bad part about them. They all have terrible top octave response, HD, peaks, etc.
The smoothest and flattest full ranger I've ever measured was the fostex FF85wk. I started a thread last week. But it needs woofer help. A sub at 100hz would do nicely.
The Mark Audio stuff is better suited for applications where bass extension is required (no sub or woofers), IMO.
I'll definitely check out your thread for the FF85. I have a bit of a soft spot for paper.
Finding a flat FR and low harmonic distortion diver from 100hz to 20khz is exactly what I'm trying to find. It's in my belief that trying to find a full range driver that plays from 20hz to 20k+ while being flat and low THD is very, very far off. Admittedly I'm a bit of a bass head too, so dedicated subwoofers are appealing anyway xP.
Finding a flat FR and low harmonic distortion diver from 100hz to 20khz is exactly what I'm trying to find. It's in my belief that trying to find a full range driver that plays from 20hz to 20k+ while being flat and low THD is very, very far off. Admittedly I'm a bit of a bass head too, so dedicated subwoofers are appealing anyway xP.
IMO these wee drivers do sound quite nice.. Better than a 3" driver would seem to. BUT However these are teeny cones, even the A10-p while a claimed 6" driver, the cone is at best 4" across. Gotta love that hype.
Bass ?
C'mon this is real life.
Notwithstanding that Human ears are DOWN 38db at 125HZ.
What are you Honestly expecting?
Bass ?
C'mon this is real life.
Notwithstanding that Human ears are DOWN 38db at 125HZ.
What are you Honestly expecting?
Madisound appear to list the Alpair 10 as a 6in driver due to its frame size. A few of us have pointed out to them this is incorrect in the past. Nobody else does TTBOMK. MA themselves don't class it as anything AFAIK, but it's in what is normally called the 5in unit class in terms of piston area.
Last edited:
That's one of the things that attract me to the Alpair 10P-A. I prefer the fibrous materials over the Renoylds foil drivers. The metal cones sound harsh to me, probably because they accentuate the cone breakup more than the fiber materials do.
Some people favor the metal membranes for the same reason I dislike them. To them, the added fizz from the cone breakup is perceived as precision in the sound reproduction. Each to their own, I guess.
~Tom
Don't put too much into low measured distortion. Geddes studies show that unless huge it is more or less meanigless.
dave
How much is "huge"? I noticed that Zaph audio used a red line at -40dB. I've read elsewhere on this forum that -40dB is 1% distortion, although I can't seem to find a chart with other dB levels and the equivalent distortion percentage. If anyone knows of such a table, a link to that table would be much appreciated
Agreed that this is a killer little driver - I've not heard the latest versions of Clark Blumensteins' Orcas using FE83Ens, and they might well satisfy in an entirely different way those folks who find the upper registers of the 85s "brittle", "sharp" or whatever. As for XO for the 85s, I'd go even higher than that with stereo woofers - for example the Facets that you might remember from August are at 240HZ to 4 Peerless 830870 midbass.
Am I the only one who finds that last sentence confusing? - ie are you saying that MA drivers do need woofers?
The smaller ones, yes, but I'd certainly disagree about the larger units. I spent the best part of today listening to the 10.P in FHXL, MAOP7 in FH3 and my place, and the 10Ps and 12P in SuperPensils at vinylkid's (Jeff Willing) . The MAOPs certainly did benefit from woofer support, but ask Jeff and his own little sound hounz about the bottom end of the 10P in the horns.
Could be, it depends on the app. Apartment/duplex dwellers, probably not unless they are trying to use them for movies without a separate 'sub' system. Even then, with no audible warning before bottoming out, adding woofers for piece of mind seems worth the cost, effort.
For folks who don't have to worry about close neighbors, using the lower THX reference of 75 dB/avg. at the listening position [95 dB design peak], woofers should protect the drivers against bottoming them out on DSOTM and most other popular rock, jazz, symphonic music when folks 'crank' them a bit on today's increasingly compressed recordings. Don't know about rap, dub step or similar though.
That, or corner horn load them.
GM
Sorry to confuse. What I meant by that was that the MA stuff is better at bass and better suited to apps where a sub or woofer isn't used. As in, you don't need to use a subwoofer with them. Yes I'd agree the smaller ones certainly benefit. Even the bigger ones benefit. But if someone doesn't want to use bass support, then MA is the first place I'd point them to.
Still need to be careful with them as there's been a few popped cones and such
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.