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The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)
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Old 7th January 2020, 06:45 AM   #5581
mvs0 is offline mvs0
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post

I do have a raised output at lower frequencies, but not as much as you suggest. I largely follow the curve Toole published (The dashed Trained Listeners curve):
Click the image to open in full size.

Now that I have subs, I might actually play with these numbers again to see what I like. The Trained Listeners curve was quite close to what I had evolved towards over a long period of time of adjusting. Nowadays I choose it as the curve to start with. As I've already dialed up the subs somewhat I might like more bass. I do think a lot has to do with average listening SPL.
I stay at about 85 to 87 dB on average but with bass heavy songs it's easy to have my SPL meter go higher .

If you would extend your current FR trend line to below 100Hz it would almost exactly be what I proposed


subdistortion.jpg

Last edited by mvs0; 7th January 2020 at 07:02 AM. Reason: changed picture
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Old 7th January 2020, 04:37 PM   #5582
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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I figured as much and probably will try that. I've already dialed in a bit extra sub and made a tweak to round off that graph I posted (small low Q boost at 30 Hz).
That comes close to the part where you feel more than you hear, I've had that but dialed it back some to 'spare' the little drivers in the array. With the 2 Scan Speak 30W woofers I've added 2/3 more volume displacement than the arrays had and with the room gain it provides enough of headroom to get it how I want it.
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Old 7th January 2020, 04:49 PM   #5583
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
I figured as much and probably will try that. I've already dialed in a bit extra sub and made a tweak to round off that graph I posted (small low Q boost at 30 Hz).
That comes close to the part where you feel more than you hear, I've had that but dialed it back some to 'spare' the little drivers in the array. With the 2 Scan Speak 30W woofers I've added 2/3 more volume displacement than the arrays had and with the room gain it provides enough of headroom to get it how I want it.

Sounds good!


Another thing you could try is experimenting with xover freq.
I see a little raised distortion around 120Hz.
Would be interesting to see if this is the sub or the array...
If it is the sub you could go as low as 100 or 80 for xover.
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Old 7th January 2020, 04:58 PM   #5584
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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I know I can win something there, but it is a part where I need to see how to get them to 'work together' to get the best results. It is part of why I actually let them (sub and arrays) play together rather than choosing a straight crossover.
It's a bit of both that's causing some disturbance there due to room influences. But I definitely can win some more headroom there. Even if the level looks to be a bit higher, it's still under 1%. I'll try and get it lower, while observing what that does over a wider listening area. No rush though, there's plenty more I want to revisit.

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Originally Posted by mvs0 View Post
Sounds good!
Yes it does .
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Last edited by wesayso; 7th January 2020 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 11th January 2020, 07:05 PM   #5585
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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Spend the afternoon to add the subwoofers to my Home Theatre setup. That one is slightly different, where I take advantage of having a discrete center channel that I can dissect and add to my left/right speakers myself.
Here, adding a shuffler makes a lot of sense (and a positive difference). So the center DSP is quite different than in my Stereo setup. I don't have an actual center channel, but with the shuffler in place you'd be hard pressed to hear it isn't there!
I've actually tried using the same setting in a Stereo setup, but due to the center not being a discrete channel (it's a Left + Right sum that always includes some left and right channel info) it just doesn't work as well as it does in Home Theatre.
Setting it all up took some time but it works like a charm. Quite impressive!

For the voices panned across the center I often use the movie "Rango". There each voice is placed exactly where it is on screen, not a classic center panned voice for all. The shuffler does a marvelous job of making it all sound more intelligible and have a good and equal tonal balance across the stage. I've used the Spears & Munsil Blu-ray to do the SPL levels within the 5.1 audio setup, checking levels etc. This gives us a pleasant "movie" sound setup that works across the couch. The bigger screen does help, as in the past it was easy to have the sound much much wider than the screen. Even though we're sitting off center with the TV, adjusting it to our liking is simple once everything is dialed in correctly.
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Last edited by wesayso; 11th January 2020 at 07:07 PM.
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Old 26th January 2020, 01:35 PM   #5586
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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Quite a while ago I promised to take a picture of the new OLED screen in my room. I said: I'll wait until the subwoofers are ready. Still winter here, days have been dark so I waited for a more sunny day to shoot that picture.

Here's the new TV on wall and the added subwoofers:
The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)-subinroom-jpg

Compared to the old screen:
Click the image to open in full size.

I'd say the size difference is pretty obvious . You've got to agree here, one barely notice the difference between subs and benches .
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File Type: jpg subinroom.jpg (398.0 KB, 4243 views)
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Old 26th January 2020, 02:04 PM   #5587
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Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
Quite a while ago I promised to take a picture of the new OLED screen in my room. I said: I'll wait until the subwoofers are ready. Still winter here, days have been dark so I waited for a more sunny day to shoot that picture.

Here's the new TV on wall and the added subwoofers:
The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)-subinroom-jpg

Compared to the old screen:
Click the image to open in full size.

I'd say the size difference is pretty obvious . You've got to agree here, one barely notice the difference between subs and benches .

Mooie upgrade!
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Old 27th January 2020, 11:20 PM   #5588
wesayso is online now wesayso  Netherlands
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I'd like some help... no idea if I'm going to take you up on it though...

Let me explain, when I bought the Goldmund amplifier from koldby, I made a tag for it because I liked how that looked:
The making of: The Two Towers (a 25 driver Full Range line array)-exampletag-jpg

Click the image to open in full size.

A bit later (after already placing the order for the tag) I found out the exact 'Telos' model this amp was modelled after. It turned out to be a 350 watt into 8 ohm amp .

Well, that's not too bad, at least the tag isn't a form of bragging .

These tags are expensive, being 3D printed as a mold (lost wax model), then cast in bronze and plated with Rhodium. It also takes a month or so to get the end product in hand. So that tag is here to stay.
However, I'm planning to get a replacement for the Pioneer A400 I use for ambience. To stay with one look I want a tag on that one as well.

What would be the better tag for it;

Vandermill Audio
Lucid Dreams System
Ambience Amplifier

Or

Vandermill Audio
Lucid Dreams System
50 Watt Amplifier

Keeping the fonts et. exactly the same as the first tag.

Any suggestions? To explain, the "Lucid Dreams System" is my way of describing the goal and function of my whole setup, so that's not up for debate. But do I add it's function on there or just state facts. I can't make up my mind.
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File Type: jpg exampletag.jpg (42.3 KB, 294 views)
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Old 28th January 2020, 12:49 AM   #5589
perceval is offline perceval  Taiwan
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If the replacement will always be for Ambience duty, then sure, it's fine to say it.

But, along the years, things might change, and you may find yourself using that amp to power a set in the kitchen, or bedroom, so stating what the amp is might be better in the long run
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Old 28th January 2020, 01:17 AM   #5590
BYRTT is offline BYRTT  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
...Here's the new TV on wall and the added subwoofers...
Thanks its very beautifull and to dream of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
...You've got to agree here, one barely notice the difference between subs and benches .
Agree (boys will ).
Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post
I'd like some help... ...What would be the better tag for it... ...I can't make up my mind.
No one is bad so can understand its hard, let me then vote for below one now you ask and no hard feelings should it end the other way around .

Quote:
Originally Posted by wesayso View Post

Vandermill Audio
Lucid Dreams System
Ambience Amplifier
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