One tip/remark, whatever:
The Relab LX480 reverb in main input mode:
And it's IR when recorded to disk:
And in contrast the results after setting it to digital input:
it's matching IR:
I've done this particular comparison with the Relab LX480 Complete, its GUI is a bit quicker to respond than the newest v4 version (got that hint from the users @ Gearspace).
Lexicon Random Hall is as clean as Relab with the Digital setting:
A reverb like Valhalla Vintage Reverb looks like that top image (or has an even higher noise floor) and has no additional settings to clean it up. I prefer to use the cleaner versions. The Relab plugin has many additional settings that emulate the old Lexicon 480L hardware input/output sounds.
The Relab LX480 reverb in main input mode:
And it's IR when recorded to disk:
And in contrast the results after setting it to digital input:
it's matching IR:
I've done this particular comparison with the Relab LX480 Complete, its GUI is a bit quicker to respond than the newest v4 version (got that hint from the users @ Gearspace).
Lexicon Random Hall is as clean as Relab with the Digital setting:
A reverb like Valhalla Vintage Reverb looks like that top image (or has an even higher noise floor) and has no additional settings to clean it up. I prefer to use the cleaner versions. The Relab plugin has many additional settings that emulate the old Lexicon 480L hardware input/output sounds.
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Still finding that out, I was pretty content with the Lexicon Random Hall. The recent change from 32 bit to 64 bit changed its behavior to truly random by dropping the settings, and that had me startled at first. On some sessions it would be awesome (for instance, after adjusting a few parameters) and the next session was bland at best. Until I found that I lost settings in between I was puzzling what had happened. If it did work, it was truly bringing the listener to the music instead of the other way around.
I thought the Relab could possibly fill in with it's Random Hall incarnation, the original from David Griesinger, should be the right one, right? But except it wasn't.
It was 'colored' in comparison to the PCM version. Then I tried the 480L "Room/Plate" with "large Room" setting... Everything started to gell again, the backdrop was less noticeable (good thing) while the depth and sheer size of the stage increased and even wrapped around me with certain songs.
Next I tried the same Reverb settings with the "Ambience" setting, same length etc, just a different algorithm. Works quite well with just about everything I played with it, somewhat less wide (was just shy of 180 degree on strong song effects at times and even wrapping around you with some songs with the Room/plate setting).
What it did do well is blend with all source material. So I have yet to try and find a blend of both using the dual engine to it's fullest. But snuffing trough the presets I also found a Random Hall version of "Large Room R" that I still need to try.
All in all I'm pretty confident that the LX480 can bring me the same treats that the Lex could bring. In fact one other setting I tried was the more modern preset found in the PCM91 "Large Hall" or on the v4 Modern -> 1990s hardware -> "Large Hall". I'd say that those are a close match to what Lex had in it's "Random Hall" algorithm. I always shorten the tail effect to just under 1 second to keep it from getting obvious, and these settings pretty much compare between the two.
I thought the Relab could possibly fill in with it's Random Hall incarnation, the original from David Griesinger, should be the right one, right? But except it wasn't.
It was 'colored' in comparison to the PCM version. Then I tried the 480L "Room/Plate" with "large Room" setting... Everything started to gell again, the backdrop was less noticeable (good thing) while the depth and sheer size of the stage increased and even wrapped around me with certain songs.
Next I tried the same Reverb settings with the "Ambience" setting, same length etc, just a different algorithm. Works quite well with just about everything I played with it, somewhat less wide (was just shy of 180 degree on strong song effects at times and even wrapping around you with some songs with the Room/plate setting).
What it did do well is blend with all source material. So I have yet to try and find a blend of both using the dual engine to it's fullest. But snuffing trough the presets I also found a Random Hall version of "Large Room R" that I still need to try.
All in all I'm pretty confident that the LX480 can bring me the same treats that the Lex could bring. In fact one other setting I tried was the more modern preset found in the PCM91 "Large Hall" or on the v4 Modern -> 1990s hardware -> "Large Hall". I'd say that those are a close match to what Lex had in it's "Random Hall" algorithm. I always shorten the tail effect to just under 1 second to keep it from getting obvious, and these settings pretty much compare between the two.
I guess most 'passers by' on the thread recently think: what's he rambling on about 
.
Well, if you bring speakers into a room, you get a "stamp" of that room on everything you play back in that room. It can be a pleasant stamp if there's enough space or diffusion inside or it can become bothersome or even boring. One thing it will do is mess with the end result in a very big way.
Absorbing early reflections can largely influence what you perceive, but it too comes at a cost. While the resolution of what you 'hear' goes up, a bit of perceived dynamics and/or excitement factor gets lost. Things like stereo crosstalk become much more obvious upon head movement. Not all recordings will sound that great anymore, as they might show the difference between a well produced version and a lesser one. Making it way more obvious what choices were made. Makes you want to adjust things like tonal balance on a song to song base.
Once you add something back, like that virtual "Haas Kicker", you can fill in the properties of the room of your liking. If you use a convolution of a real space, it becomes quite "real" as if you're in that space, while the music is playing. Which is neat, but not for me for the long run. As it basically sounds the same with every piece of music you play. Meaning if that room makes the image/stage appear larger, it will do so on every recording. Just like a real room would.
What I've noticed with the use of these Lexicon reverbs (after tweaking), is they blend with the music. Adjust to it and 'fill in' missing pieces without being obvious. A recording can still sound huge, if it's in the music already, but it stays more small and intimate when the recording has that embedded into the song.
Basically, it hides behind the music while enhancing what is heard up front. Making recordings more forgiving while not messing with the perceived detail too much. It feels more alive, as if you are there watching the recording happening in front of you.
Well placed open baffle can do some of these treats, in my humble opinion. Making them more forgiving on source material, one may even call it musical. I don't agree with the view that box speakers 'sound' boxy though. Something must have gone wrong during the design/build for that to happen. But open baffle uses the room more to it's advantage, most box speakers just make the room more obvious unless some care has been taken. Open baffle has more ambience sound.
Later arriving as to not upset the detail.
.Well, if you bring speakers into a room, you get a "stamp" of that room on everything you play back in that room. It can be a pleasant stamp if there's enough space or diffusion inside or it can become bothersome or even boring. One thing it will do is mess with the end result in a very big way.
Absorbing early reflections can largely influence what you perceive, but it too comes at a cost. While the resolution of what you 'hear' goes up, a bit of perceived dynamics and/or excitement factor gets lost. Things like stereo crosstalk become much more obvious upon head movement. Not all recordings will sound that great anymore, as they might show the difference between a well produced version and a lesser one. Making it way more obvious what choices were made. Makes you want to adjust things like tonal balance on a song to song base.
Once you add something back, like that virtual "Haas Kicker", you can fill in the properties of the room of your liking. If you use a convolution of a real space, it becomes quite "real" as if you're in that space, while the music is playing. Which is neat, but not for me for the long run. As it basically sounds the same with every piece of music you play. Meaning if that room makes the image/stage appear larger, it will do so on every recording. Just like a real room would.
What I've noticed with the use of these Lexicon reverbs (after tweaking), is they blend with the music. Adjust to it and 'fill in' missing pieces without being obvious. A recording can still sound huge, if it's in the music already, but it stays more small and intimate when the recording has that embedded into the song.
Basically, it hides behind the music while enhancing what is heard up front. Making recordings more forgiving while not messing with the perceived detail too much. It feels more alive, as if you are there watching the recording happening in front of you.
Well placed open baffle can do some of these treats, in my humble opinion. Making them more forgiving on source material, one may even call it musical. I don't agree with the view that box speakers 'sound' boxy though. Something must have gone wrong during the design/build for that to happen. But open baffle uses the room more to it's advantage, most box speakers just make the room more obvious unless some care has been taken. Open baffle has more ambience sound.
Later arriving as to not upset the detail
.
One more thing: I think I can create more space/room/depth with the Relab LX480 without it becoming 'obvious'. It might just be a case of finding the right mix of parameters though.
For a very nice view into the kitchen of Lexicon reverbs, this thread is awesome: https://gearspace.com/board/high-end/362930-lexicon-reverbs-brief-bestiary.html
The OP of that thread: Michael Carnes, is also the one that did the coding for the PCM plugin bundle for Lexicon.
Currently he's not with Lexicon anymore, he left Lexicon quite a few years ago if I remember right. He shared quite a few insights on Gearspace (on a few different threads) that I found interesting to read.
Currently he's not with Lexicon anymore, he left Lexicon quite a few years ago if I remember right. He shared quite a few insights on Gearspace (on a few different threads) that I found interesting to read.
Relab wasn't kidding then they mentioned the sample accuracy of their product. I came across this page yesterday: https://www.housecallfm.com/download-gns-personal-lexicon-480l
It features a library of actual Lexicon 480L IR responses. So I figured to check those results with a run of the Relab LX480 VST plugin saved to disk:
As this was a separate device from the one Relab used to model their plugin, the accuracy is impressive.
It features a library of actual Lexicon 480L IR responses. So I figured to check those results with a run of the Relab LX480 VST plugin saved to disk:
As this was a separate device from the one Relab used to model their plugin, the accuracy is impressive.
I have to add a note to the comparison above: the IR file from that website I linked to was at sample rate 44100. My comparison only lined up when I was having JRiver run its output at 48000 or 96000 sample rate. It made me check and yes, there are more differences to be spotted even between running at 88200 and 96000 sample rate.
I guess it's never enough. What can I say, I like a little overkill:
Upgraded my graphics due to the current lower prices (opportunities) during the outphasing of previous generation cards and moved my previous card to my son.
Two happy people and a bit more power reserve for the both of us.
Crazy how things get down fast. $246 is not much money for a beast like that!
not as much ram as yours, and I’m not sure which video card you have, but that’s the same cpu, right?
not bad with a cache of 10Mb.
being a Mac guy, I would love to see the comparison with a M1 cpu.
Trouble is that so many apps you use are PC only. Hard to make a fair comparison. Like there’s no MadVR for Mac.
not as much ram as yours, and I’m not sure which video card you have, but that’s the same cpu, right?
not bad with a cache of 10Mb.
being a Mac guy, I would love to see the comparison with a M1 cpu.
Trouble is that so many apps you use are PC only. Hard to make a fair comparison. Like there’s no MadVR for Mac.
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That's the one, the HP Z440 workhorse. I bought it in 2019 as an overyear product at a nice discount with all bells and whistles except the graphics card.
I have the 1650 v4, 6 core, 12 threads CPU with a nice single core speed. (I believe an I7 6850k would fit too using non ECC memory)
These old workhorses are fun though, they are build like servers, using ECC memory from servers and have internal (optional) memory cooling etc.
The graphics card I use is an Inno3d 3070 TI. A very sleek card, 2 slots heigh that easily fits this slim case. I even glanced at the 4070 TI that comes in a similar package. But its price is way up into the stratosphere.
With a simple (StarTech) PCIe adapter I use an NVME drive for O.S. The original HP card + drive was way more expensive, but those prices have dropped down too.
Lastly a 2 TB + a 4 TB (sata) SSD for data/movies etc. separate NAS for backup.
In all honesty, these days an i5 10400f build (or similar) would make more sense, but I wanted/needed the PCI slot for my Asus ST and in 2019 those options were getting limited.
I have the 1650 v4, 6 core, 12 threads CPU with a nice single core speed. (I believe an I7 6850k would fit too using non ECC memory)
These old workhorses are fun though, they are build like servers, using ECC memory from servers and have internal (optional) memory cooling etc.
The graphics card I use is an Inno3d 3070 TI. A very sleek card, 2 slots heigh that easily fits this slim case. I even glanced at the 4070 TI that comes in a similar package. But its price is way up into the stratosphere.
With a simple (StarTech) PCIe adapter I use an NVME drive for O.S. The original HP card + drive was way more expensive, but those prices have dropped down too.
Lastly a 2 TB + a 4 TB (sata) SSD for data/movies etc. separate NAS for backup.
In all honesty, these days an i5 10400f build (or similar) would make more sense, but I wanted/needed the PCI slot for my Asus ST and in 2019 those options were getting limited.
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I meant to say something like the i5 12400f, in comparison, my Xeon would be the same age as the 6th generation.
In that regard it still keeps up quite nicely (would be about as fast as the 10400f I mentioned by mistake).
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The baffle is made of 2 separate pieces of aluminium. One inner baffle, where all drivers are bolted onto rigidly. And an outer piece,
that bolts into the enclosure. Between both plates of aluminium there is a layer of butylrope. Between the inner baffle and the enclosure a layer of mass loaded vinyl and a layer of neoprene. That inner baffle is kind of 'floating' between the enclosure and outer (beauty) baffle. But all drivers are bolted to it rigidly.
Does that answer your question?