Before dragging the second array back into the garage I fired them up for some tunes.
What can I say... I still have the notion that the filtered array is even more independent from room, as in: it brings less coloration. It is more level when moving around as well.
Anyway, the next array is back in the garage and I hope to fix it soon.
What can I say... I still have the notion that the filtered array is even more independent from room, as in: it brings less coloration. It is more level when moving around as well.
Anyway, the next array is back in the garage and I hope to fix it soon.
As it has become available I just couldn't resist:
SH50 vs Filtered Line Arrays
The only things of importance here are the DI and reflection levels. As the SH50 would need EQ to really show it's potential. The DI will remain the same though and it shows the narrow pattern of the SH50 vs the wide pattern of the row of TC9's. That's why I have damping/absorbing panels
.
But in all honesty, the damping panels make it necessary to use the ambient channels (for maximum listening pleasure). So I do think the SH50 could use either ambience speaker help or well timed diffusion panels. At least, that's what I would try with them.
SH50 vs Filtered Line Arrays
The only things of importance here are the DI and reflection levels. As the SH50 would need EQ to really show it's potential. The DI will remain the same though and it shows the narrow pattern of the SH50 vs the wide pattern of the row of TC9's. That's why I have damping/absorbing panels
.But in all honesty, the damping panels make it necessary to use the ambient channels (for maximum listening pleasure). So I do think the SH50 could use either ambience speaker help or well timed diffusion panels. At least, that's what I would try with them.
Attachments
As it has become available I just couldn't resist:
SH50 vs Filtered Line Arrays
Yours is barely visible noise on the 90dB gridline
SH-50 is the rockymountains
The only things of importance here are the DI and reflection levels. As the SH50 would need EQ to really show it's potential. The DI will remain the same though and it shows the narrow pattern of the SH50 vs the wide pattern of the row of TC9's. That's why I have damping/absorbing panels
But in all honesty, the damping panels make it necessary to use the ambient channels (for maximum listening pleasure). So I do think the SH50 could use either ambience speaker help or well timed diffusion panels. At least, that's what I would try with them.
I would love to see a set of measurements out there with a properly EQ-ed SH50. Then it would get the respect it deserves. I've waited a long time to see this kind of measurements on that line of speakers (Danley Synergy) and it didn't disappoint.
I hope more people will recognize it for what it is: a big and excellent load of potential!
My speakers could never match the output potential(*), the rest (the mountains) is solvable with simple means. While I think they have too small of a coverage angle for the home HiFi crowd in a regular environment, they will nail it for Home Theatre.
The Hyperion has about the same coverage angles, to really be competitive in HiFi I think it would take a wider coverage angle. I still love it for what it is. An ingenious solution to solve an almost unsolvable problem. Is it ideal? Not quite, but what it...
(*) If you ask me, headroom is one of the key ingredients to get Dynamics, more is better...
I hope more people will recognize it for what it is: a big and excellent load of potential!
My speakers could never match the output potential(*), the rest (the mountains) is solvable with simple means. While I think they have too small of a coverage angle for the home HiFi crowd in a regular environment, they will nail it for Home Theatre.
The Hyperion has about the same coverage angles, to really be competitive in HiFi I think it would take a wider coverage angle. I still love it for what it is. An ingenious solution to solve an almost unsolvable problem. Is it ideal? Not quite, but what it...
(*) If you ask me, headroom is one of the key ingredients to get Dynamics, more is better...
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IIRC your speakers can hit quite high decibels? Way more than what is required to get hearing damage?
Too much headroom is safe in the home environment?
True (as long as the bass is solved in another way like with subwoofers), and for home use its output is plenty.
But as big of a deal it was for me to see the SH50 measurements, I get the impression that they don't get the attention they deserve. Purely because the measurements look that rough. But if you look more closely, all valleys and bumps line up, perfectly solvable with a bit of EQ (or running it active).
The same measurements were shown on ASR, more than half of the reactions show that it doesn't get the appreciation it deserves.
Don't get me wrong Zia, if I'm totally honest, I'm immensely proud of what I have accomplished with my own concept. Especially when looking at the floor space it requires, which was the biggest reason for me to go for it. I did not have the real estate to go Open Baffle or with huge horns. For what it is I'll say my setup did come out above my own expectations and I would be inclined to say it is a real good fit for home audio use.
But as big of a deal it was for me to see the SH50 measurements, I get the impression that they don't get the attention they deserve. Purely because the measurements look that rough. But if you look more closely, all valleys and bumps line up, perfectly solvable with a bit of EQ (or running it active).
The same measurements were shown on ASR, more than half of the reactions show that it doesn't get the appreciation it deserves.
Don't get me wrong Zia, if I'm totally honest, I'm immensely proud of what I have accomplished with my own concept. Especially when looking at the floor space it requires, which was the biggest reason for me to go for it. I did not have the real estate to go Open Baffle or with huge horns. For what it is I'll say my setup did come out above my own expectations and I would be inclined to say it is a real good fit for home audio use.
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I'll say, this is bad for my heart condition.
I've repaired the right speaker as my last measurement session showed the left speaker (which was repaired) to be excellent and the right was off. The right had 2(!) groups that were dysfunctional. So back to the garage, found two dead drivers with open circuit, fixed them and done, right? Wrong...
Today I fired up the speakers again and ... the right is functioning wonderful but now the left one is showing no signs of life in the most important central group (the one with no filters).
So whatever is causing this, still spreads around. Is it because both speakers have been subjected to the harsher conditions in the garage? It does get more moist over there.
Or is there a reason they can't cope with the filters. There isn't anything to indicate that, except for this repeated broken driver syndrome. The drivers that fail seem to be random, it has been a driver from different groups that have failed on me, no real clue what's going on.
It can be that they do indeed corrode at the joint from leads to coil, which would mean they can all fail on me over the next period of time.
I need to let this sink in and decide what to do. This concept really is worth it i.m.h.o. I could choose to replace all 50 and hopefully be done with it. Except that they are produced in batches and there's probably not enough of them in store right now. (Digikey still shows backorder)
I've repaired the right speaker as my last measurement session showed the left speaker (which was repaired) to be excellent and the right was off. The right had 2(!) groups that were dysfunctional. So back to the garage, found two dead drivers with open circuit, fixed them and done, right? Wrong...
Today I fired up the speakers again and ... the right is functioning wonderful but now the left one is showing no signs of life in the most important central group (the one with no filters).
So whatever is causing this, still spreads around. Is it because both speakers have been subjected to the harsher conditions in the garage? It does get more moist over there.
Or is there a reason they can't cope with the filters. There isn't anything to indicate that, except for this repeated broken driver syndrome. The drivers that fail seem to be random, it has been a driver from different groups that have failed on me, no real clue what's going on.
It can be that they do indeed corrode at the joint from leads to coil, which would mean they can all fail on me over the next period of time.
I need to let this sink in and decide what to do. This concept really is worth it i.m.h.o. I could choose to replace all 50 and hopefully be done with it. Except that they are produced in batches and there's probably not enough of them in store right now. (Digikey still shows backorder)
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Or I could invest more money and get 25x 10F/8414G10
That seems to be the Scan Speak variant at much higher cost. But it would require me to hack their frame to make them fit in the array. not a real standard drop in job...
Anyway, Id have to be totally confident it isn't the filters that's causing this. That still seems quite unlikely to me, but then again. I never expected any of these drivers to fail to begin with. I'm not fed up with it, I believe there must be a proper solution, but I am puzzled by it all. Did I do something to set this off? Was it the more moist, harsher conditions of almost a year being parked in the garage?
Not one fault in 5 years time. Bought the drivers in 2011, stored in the main house, assembled in 2014 and ran them until august last year. Now, after a year of being stored in the garage, one after the other the drivers start to fail on me.
That seems to be the Scan Speak variant at much higher cost. But it would require me to hack their frame to make them fit in the array. not a real standard drop in job...
Anyway, Id have to be totally confident it isn't the filters that's causing this. That still seems quite unlikely to me, but then again. I never expected any of these drivers to fail to begin with. I'm not fed up with it, I believe there must be a proper solution, but I am puzzled by it all. Did I do something to set this off? Was it the more moist, harsher conditions of almost a year being parked in the garage?
Not one fault in 5 years time. Bought the drivers in 2011, stored in the main house, assembled in 2014 and ran them until august last year. Now, after a year of being stored in the garage, one after the other the drivers start to fail on me.
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Starting to think they can all fail on me randomly and the reason is what has been said here by profiguy:
Left array, raw + pré-EQ:
Right array, raw + pré-EQ:
An upgrade?
https://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-8414g10.pdf
Left array, raw + pré-EQ:
Right array, raw + pré-EQ:
An upgrade?
https://www.scan-speak.dk/datasheet/pdf/10f-8414g10.pdf
Attachments
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But I had other drivers fail in different (filtered) groups before.
It seems more likely to me that it's the connection of the lead wire to the voice coil, corrosion under the glue. If it's the lead free solder or something else...
But that does mean it could happen to all drivers. 5 drivers failed that I've repaired. A 6th just died between last time and today's session.
Do I keep repairing/replacing? Or simply replace them all and keep them out of harsh environments. That is, if I can get them anytime soon.
It seems more likely to me that it's the connection of the lead wire to the voice coil, corrosion under the glue. If it's the lead free solder or something else...
But that does mean it could happen to all drivers. 5 drivers failed that I've repaired. A 6th just died between last time and today's session.
Do I keep repairing/replacing? Or simply replace them all and keep them out of harsh environments. That is, if I can get them anytime soon.
Technically, the drivers are (at least) 10 years old, bought in 2011 as a new batch of drivers, ordered in the fall/ delivered in november/december was it?.
And I half expect they wouldn't have failed on me if I hadn't parked them in my (unheated) garage for a year.
I've tried to contact Vifa/Peerless in the past but never really got that far.
And I half expect they wouldn't have failed on me if I hadn't parked them in my (unheated) garage for a year.
I've tried to contact Vifa/Peerless in the past but never really got that far.
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