Thanks for the idea. As my sheet is 841mm long I can easily do this.
Challenge accepted
Sheets have been cut and are awaiting assembly
.Attachments
Hi X,
I haven't got round to gluing yet, other 'DIY' got in the way. But everything is pretty much ready to assemble, I just need to fold the baffle to shape. I was experimenting on scrap foamboard to get the depth etc. right before committing to the real baffle. Hopefully I'll get a chance tonight to get gluing.
With regards to bracing in the 0.4x version, I take it an approach like the one you used in your 0.53x build would be advisable?
I haven't got round to gluing yet, other 'DIY' got in the way. But everything is pretty much ready to assemble, I just need to fold the baffle to shape. I was experimenting on scrap foamboard to get the depth etc. right before committing to the real baffle. Hopefully I'll get a chance tonight to get gluing.
With regards to bracing in the 0.4x version, I take it an approach like the one you used in your 0.53x build would be advisable?
This is a nice amp for mini Karlsonator:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/253887-tda7297-karlsonator.html#post3892391
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/253887-tda7297-karlsonator.html#post3892391
XRK, if I were to make a karlson speaker with 4 vifa drivers, how large should it be.
Also would it be better if the 4 drivers were in a square 2X2 pattern, or a tilted
2x2 diamond pattern. Been too busy lately with life to mess with DIY speakers for awhile. I might have time later this week, to build some.
Also would it be better if the 4 drivers were in a square 2X2 pattern, or a tilted
2x2 diamond pattern. Been too busy lately with life to mess with DIY speakers for awhile. I might have time later this week, to build some.
AZDoug,
If you want to do the 2x2 driver in a mini Karlsonator, it won't get your any higher efficiency in series/parallel wiring. However, you will lower the distortion significantly as the cones move less. I would do a diamond config in a 0.75x scale in height and depth and 0.53x scale in width. You may want to use a 4 ohm + 1 mH + 1 uF BSC circuit (all in parallel) as the four drivers now will have more mids/highs compared to bass of two drivers.
Good luck,
X
If you want to do the 2x2 driver in a mini Karlsonator, it won't get your any higher efficiency in series/parallel wiring. However, you will lower the distortion significantly as the cones move less. I would do a diamond config in a 0.75x scale in height and depth and 0.53x scale in width. You may want to use a 4 ohm + 1 mH + 1 uF BSC circuit (all in parallel) as the four drivers now will have more mids/highs compared to bass of two drivers.
Good luck,
X
Mega-Karlsonator?
Hi guys
I am sorry to come into this thread sideways, but I would first like to hear if my idea is viable at all before I start a whole thread on it.
I want to build a pair of high quality subs for home use. The drivers I am going to use for this sub are the 13" Leak Sandwich bass drivers. I already have 1 pair of ceramic bass drivers and 1 pair of alnico drivers. I am going to get another pair of each for the sub idea I have in mind. Each box will have two ceramic and two alnico drivers in. I will be quad-amping each sub. One of the main box design ideas for I have in mind is a mega-Karlsonator, and I want to know if it will work.
The boxes that I am planning to build will be 188cm (1.88m/74"/6.16ft) tall x 57cm (22.44") wide x 55cm (21.65") deep. The internal measurements will be 182cm (71.65") x 51cm (21.08") x 49cm (19.29"). With that height it will be a real mega-Karlson to start with, but I want to make it a Karlsonator (Karlson crossed with TQWP) design. I estimate with the height of the box that this design should go down low, very close to 20Hz at the bottom end. The problem is that I don't have any TSPs for any of the drivers, but I will also be buying the Dayton measuring suite, and I will be measuring each individual driver. But before I even start that, I want to know if such an idea will work at all. If the Karlson experts give the green light for this idea, I will create a new thread on the Subwoofer forum. Here is a pic for my idea:
Thanks,
Deon
Hi guys
I am sorry to come into this thread sideways, but I would first like to hear if my idea is viable at all before I start a whole thread on it.
I want to build a pair of high quality subs for home use. The drivers I am going to use for this sub are the 13" Leak Sandwich bass drivers. I already have 1 pair of ceramic bass drivers and 1 pair of alnico drivers. I am going to get another pair of each for the sub idea I have in mind. Each box will have two ceramic and two alnico drivers in. I will be quad-amping each sub. One of the main box design ideas for I have in mind is a mega-Karlsonator, and I want to know if it will work.
The boxes that I am planning to build will be 188cm (1.88m/74"/6.16ft) tall x 57cm (22.44") wide x 55cm (21.65") deep. The internal measurements will be 182cm (71.65") x 51cm (21.08") x 49cm (19.29"). With that height it will be a real mega-Karlson to start with, but I want to make it a Karlsonator (Karlson crossed with TQWP) design. I estimate with the height of the box that this design should go down low, very close to 20Hz at the bottom end. The problem is that I don't have any TSPs for any of the drivers, but I will also be buying the Dayton measuring suite, and I will be measuring each individual driver. But before I even start that, I want to know if such an idea will work at all. If the Karlson experts give the green light for this idea, I will create a new thread on the Subwoofer forum. Here is a pic for my idea:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Thanks,
Deon
Deon,
Sounds really interesting and I don't think it is a crazy idea. You basically are making a quad driver tapped horn with a Karlson aperture. It should work well. Do you have a guess as to what the Qts of these drivers is? Moderate like 0.4 or 0.5 is needed and lower is ok. But for large drivers like this high Qts will result in a very big box or very peaky bass response. I will glad to model it in AkAbak for you - get me TS params of an approximate close driver and I can start.
Sounds really interesting and I don't think it is a crazy idea. You basically are making a quad driver tapped horn with a Karlson aperture. It should work well. Do you have a guess as to what the Qts of these drivers is? Moderate like 0.4 or 0.5 is needed and lower is ok. But for large drivers like this high Qts will result in a very big box or very peaky bass response. I will glad to model it in AkAbak for you - get me TS params of an approximate close driver and I can start.
It is most definitely a viable idea. In fact it is an awesome idea.
Sims will likely be necessary for nailing down the tuning, volume, etc, but xrk has you covered...
I am very curious about the T/S parameters. I'd presume a low Fs, but frankly don't know what the rest could be. A moderate to highish Qms, and moderate to lowish Qes would be good IMO.
Actually, IME even a moderately high total Q is not a bad thing, but they would need more damping (acoustastuf or wool or what not) and the size may need to be big.
Sims will likely be necessary for nailing down the tuning, volume, etc, but xrk has you covered...
I am very curious about the T/S parameters. I'd presume a low Fs, but frankly don't know what the rest could be. A moderate to highish Qms, and moderate to lowish Qes would be good IMO.
Actually, IME even a moderately high total Q is not a bad thing, but they would need more damping (acoustastuf or wool or what not) and the size may need to be big.
Thanks.
I don't know yet as I will have to measure them and I don't have the needed software yet. What I have read is that they have a very low Fs (19Hz). They are pretty efficient, and in the standard Leak sealed box (ain't that one of the best Hi-Fi oxymorons you've ever heard?!
) of 60-liters, the F3 is 60Hz, so I suspect a lowish Qt with a large Vas.It is most definitely a viable idea. In fact it is an awesome idea.
Thanks, Greg.
Well, here's hoping. I want to use these drivers because I have heard that they are excellent in the bass, and they don't cost too much. Someone in another thread suggested a pair of LAB12 drivers would be better than the four Leak drivers, but a single LAB12 costs more than a pair of the Leaks. The other reason I chose the Leaks is so that I can have a mix of ceramic and alnico magnets. Lynn Olson indicated that he thought this kind of combination would have awesome tonal colors, and since the front speakers I intend building for use with them will also be an ceramic/alnico mix (Goodmans Axiom 201 + 6"x9" alnico fullrange on an open baffle; baffle-step on the Goodmans), I think this will be the best possible combination for reasonable money.
Thanks guys. I will definitely post more as soon as I have the drivers and have measured them. Then the games can really begin.
Deon
PS. If anybody wants to copy or use this design idea in the mean time, feel free. I would be very interested in the results.
Thanks. I gotta try this. I have/had a soundcard (don't know where it is right now), but it did not want to work with my PC back then. OTOH I have upgraded from XP to Win7, so maybe I have to go hunt for it and see if it will work now.
Deon
PS. What is a DMM?
How about doing a sim with either of the following Acoustic Elegance drivers, just as a proof of concept. I would love to see the results.
Acoustic Elegance Lambda Series TD15H-8ohm:
T/S Parameters:
Fs: 21 Hz
Qms: 4.23
Vas: 467 Liters
Cms: 0.45 mm/N
Mms: 129 grams
Rms: 4 Kg/S
Xmax: 14 mm (peak)
Xmech: 20 mm (peak)
Sd: 855 cm2
Qes: 0.27
Re: 6.5 ohms
Le: 0.3 mH
Z: 8 ohms
Bl: 20.1 T/m
Pe(max): 500 Watts
Pe(transient): 1000 Watts
Qts: 0.26
"no": 1.51 %
1W Spl: 94dB
2.8V SPl: 94.84dB
Acoustic Elegance Lambda Series TD12H-8ohm:
T/S Parameters:
Fs: 26.7 Hz
Qms: 3.72
Vas: 160 Liters
Cms: 0.4 mm/N
Mms: 88.6 grams
Rms: 4 Kg/S
Xmax: 14 mm (peak)
Xmech: 18 mm (peak)
Sd: 530 cm2
Qes: 0.25
Re: 6.5 ohms
Le: 0.3 mH
Z: 8 ohms
Bl: 19.7 T/m
Pe(max): 500 Watts
Pe(transient): 1000 Watts
Qts: 0.23
"no": 1.18 %
1W Spl: 92.9dB
2.8V SPl: 93.77dB
Acoustic Elegance Lambda Series TD15H-8ohm:
T/S Parameters:
Fs: 21 Hz
Qms: 4.23
Vas: 467 Liters
Cms: 0.45 mm/N
Mms: 129 grams
Rms: 4 Kg/S
Xmax: 14 mm (peak)
Xmech: 20 mm (peak)
Sd: 855 cm2
Qes: 0.27
Re: 6.5 ohms
Le: 0.3 mH
Z: 8 ohms
Bl: 20.1 T/m
Pe(max): 500 Watts
Pe(transient): 1000 Watts
Qts: 0.26
"no": 1.51 %
1W Spl: 94dB
2.8V SPl: 94.84dB
Acoustic Elegance Lambda Series TD12H-8ohm:
T/S Parameters:
Fs: 26.7 Hz
Qms: 3.72
Vas: 160 Liters
Cms: 0.4 mm/N
Mms: 88.6 grams
Rms: 4 Kg/S
Xmax: 14 mm (peak)
Xmech: 18 mm (peak)
Sd: 530 cm2
Qes: 0.25
Re: 6.5 ohms
Le: 0.3 mH
Z: 8 ohms
Bl: 19.7 T/m
Pe(max): 500 Watts
Pe(transient): 1000 Watts
Qts: 0.23
"no": 1.18 %
1W Spl: 92.9dB
2.8V SPl: 93.77dB
hey X - I've got a cheap pick for this project - it not a huge air pump and qts might be somewhat low - got to test mine
MCM 55-1465 Dual Voice Coil Woofer
this driver was used by Marshall Leach in a sub - sat system.
they're $40.99 each 4 and up
MCM Audio Select 12'' Dual Voice Coil Woofer | 55-1465 (551465) | MCM Audio Select
Poly treated paper cone
Rubber surround
Stamped steel basket
2" voice coil
42.6oz. magnet
Specifications::
Power Capacity: 100W/200W RMS/peak (per coil)
Sensitivity: 93dB (W/M)
Impedance: 8ohm (per coil)
Re: 5.8ohm (per coil)
Le: 0.59mH (per coil)
Frequency response: 25Hz~3KHz
Fs: 25Hz
Qts: 0.30
Qes: 0.32
Qms: 3.13
Vas: 203.81 (liters)
Xmax: 5.0mm
in a cluttered room mounted in Karlson 12 with its vents sealed - mic 20inches from aperture - its really pretty punchy - IIRC, qtc in the little K12 is around 1.05 with no fill. This woofer in a sealed K12 might make a F.A.S.T. system that is compact.
MCM 55-1465 Dual Voice Coil Woofer
this driver was used by Marshall Leach in a sub - sat system.
they're $40.99 each 4 and up
MCM Audio Select 12'' Dual Voice Coil Woofer | 55-1465 (551465) | MCM Audio Select
Poly treated paper cone
Rubber surround
Stamped steel basket
2" voice coil
42.6oz. magnet
Specifications::
Power Capacity: 100W/200W RMS/peak (per coil)
Sensitivity: 93dB (W/M)
Impedance: 8ohm (per coil)
Re: 5.8ohm (per coil)
Le: 0.59mH (per coil)
Frequency response: 25Hz~3KHz
Fs: 25Hz
Qts: 0.30
Qes: 0.32
Qms: 3.13
Vas: 203.81 (liters)
Xmax: 5.0mm
in a cluttered room mounted in Karlson 12 with its vents sealed - mic 20inches from aperture - its really pretty punchy - IIRC, qtc in the little K12 is around 1.05 with no fill. This woofer in a sealed K12 might make a F.A.S.T. system that is compact.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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