traditional Karlson cabinets are tuned for punch. By Z-in minimum, K12 is tuned around 62Hz. K15, upper 40's.
GregB's Karlsonator12 built per plan is tuned ~37Hz. I'd like to see a sim with Kappa12A.
In MMJ's "Karlflex" thread, contributor TB46 came up with a nice little offset T-line K for a 15 inch (First Beyma - then a deeper basket B&C) woofer. I don't know how subjectively such an aperture might sound / play - maybe xrk971 has some ideas.
anyhow, that cabinet with a 12" should extend to the upper 30's and I think its smaller than the Karlsonator 12.
to go relatively flat to 40 in a reasonable size, you might use a 12" I do think a K15 size Karlsonator with some 15 woofers would reach lower than K15.
maybe MMJ and TB have some ideas on making your K.
TB46 small 15 inch driver Karlflex Plan
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...uned-6th-order-karlflex_15p1200nd_smaller.pdf
From post 1188
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...d-series-tuned-6th-order-119.html#post4236575
Hornresp input window
Response with Emiennce Kappa12A vs Delta 12LFA
GregB's Karlsonator12 built per plan is tuned ~37Hz. I'd like to see a sim with Kappa12A.
In MMJ's "Karlflex" thread, contributor TB46 came up with a nice little offset T-line K for a 15 inch (First Beyma - then a deeper basket B&C) woofer. I don't know how subjectively such an aperture might sound / play - maybe xrk971 has some ideas.
anyhow, that cabinet with a 12" should extend to the upper 30's and I think its smaller than the Karlsonator 12.
to go relatively flat to 40 in a reasonable size, you might use a 12" I do think a K15 size Karlsonator with some 15 woofers would reach lower than K15.
maybe MMJ and TB have some ideas on making your K.
TB46 small 15 inch driver Karlflex Plan
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/atta...uned-6th-order-karlflex_15p1200nd_smaller.pdf
From post 1188
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subw...d-series-tuned-6th-order-119.html#post4236575
Hornresp input window
Response with Emiennce Kappa12A vs Delta 12LFA
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Thanks Freddi. I would like to see sims for kappa 12a and kappa 15a karlsonator. Both these drivers are easily available here in Thailand. If the 15" goes significantly lower I would build that. If there is only a marginal difference I might opt for the 12" version. I am happy to stick with the karlsonator design. I am happy with the fostex fe206en I built based on xrk's sim. I have no measurement equipment yet but it sounds balanced and reached quite low for a 8" full range.
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With a little cabinet such as TB46's Karlflex, there's tradeoffs The large Vas Kappa15 does not go as low but is ~3-4dB stronger on the low end.
Lets see if X will simulate a Karlsonator for Kappa15A which reaches ~40 - maybe start with a few inches taller
- just enough for a 15 inch for fit the baffle, and say 3 inches wider.
Lets see if X will simulate a Karlsonator for Kappa15A which reaches ~40 - maybe start with a few inches taller
- just enough for a 15 inch for fit the baffle, and say 3 inches wider.
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@xrk971: Could you sim the kappa drivers in appropriate Karlsonator cabinets? I would like to know if I can reach the required crossover point or if lucky even a bit higher. 1.2kHz would be ok, 2.5kHz would be fantastic. Do you think the Kappa is the best suited Eminence driver for a Karlsonator?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Lets see what X can come up with for Kappa15A. By just making TB46's Karlflex (offswet t-line with K-front) about 30 percent wider, it goes pretty deep - that won't be practical for a build but illustrates that 104 liter internal volume tuned to around 40 will give pretty good extension. Maybe a Karlsonator12 widened by 3 or so inches would be ballpark. Karlsonator12 is tuned to 37Hz - I don't think you'd want lower tuning than that but X is the speaker expert and man with the plan.
some 1" compression drivers will stand a crossover near 1K@ on a K-tube - there;s almost not gain down there with a little pipe. Eminence's 1K6 network is close to 1K@ for the highpass section.
some 1" compression drivers will stand a crossover near 1K@ on a K-tube - there;s almost not gain down there with a little pipe. Eminence's 1K6 network is close to 1K@ for the highpass section.
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that sounds about right - an old school horn could have 10dB more output than a little slotted pipe on the low end. Above a certain point, the tube would be ok
here's a couple of K-tubes at 3KHz - I was using them as a "low helper tweeter" to augment Eminence's B102. When I lat checked the Dayton driver, it seemed to play much cleaner than in the graph below. FWIW, I don't think the distortion was "noticeable".
H2 @ -53dB for BMD440 is pretty clean
here's a couple of K-tubes at 3KHz - I was using them as a "low helper tweeter" to augment Eminence's B102. When I lat checked the Dayton driver, it seemed to play much cleaner than in the graph below. FWIW, I don't think the distortion was "noticeable".
H2 @ -53dB for BMD440 is pretty clean
@xrk971
I am looking for good low end but do not want to squeeze out the last couple of Hz on the downside by sacrificing a smooth response overall.
Here are the TS Parameters of the drivers I am considering for my 2 way Karlsonator:
KappaLite 3015
Sensitivity 100.8 dB 1W/1m
Resonant Frequency (Fs) 45 Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 5.27 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le) 0.64 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms) 6.70
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) 0.36
Total Q (Qts) 0.34
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 5.40 ft.³ (152.91 L)
BL Product (BL) 18.6 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms) 84g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 5.90 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 856 cm²
kappa-12a
Sensitivity 99.3 dB 1W/1m
Resonant Frequency (Fs) 45 Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 5.41 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le) 0.77 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms) 7.76
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) 0.28
Total Q (Qts) 0.27
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 3.96 ft.³ (112.13 Liter)
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) 0.30 mm/N
BL Product (BL) 15.2 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms) 42g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 3.2 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 519.5 cm²
kappa-15LFA
Sensitivity* 99 dB
Resonant Frequency (fs) 39 Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 5.4 Ω
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.27m H
Mechanical Q (Qms) 6.08
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) 0.41
Total Q (Qts) 0.38
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 159 liters / 5.62 cu.ft.
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) 0.15 mm/N
BL Product (BL) 18.6 T-M
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (MMs) 105 grams
Efficiency Bandwidth Product (EBP) 95
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 5.5 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 856.3 cm2
Thanks in advance for the sims!
I am looking for good low end but do not want to squeeze out the last couple of Hz on the downside by sacrificing a smooth response overall.
Here are the TS Parameters of the drivers I am considering for my 2 way Karlsonator:
KappaLite 3015
Sensitivity 100.8 dB 1W/1m
Resonant Frequency (Fs) 45 Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 5.27 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le) 0.64 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms) 6.70
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) 0.36
Total Q (Qts) 0.34
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 5.40 ft.³ (152.91 L)
BL Product (BL) 18.6 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms) 84g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 5.90 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 856 cm²
kappa-12a
Sensitivity 99.3 dB 1W/1m
Resonant Frequency (Fs) 45 Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 5.41 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le) 0.77 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms) 7.76
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) 0.28
Total Q (Qts) 0.27
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 3.96 ft.³ (112.13 Liter)
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) 0.30 mm/N
BL Product (BL) 15.2 Tm
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms) 42g
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 3.2 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 519.5 cm²
kappa-15LFA
Sensitivity* 99 dB
Resonant Frequency (fs) 39 Hz
DC Resistance (Re) 5.4 Ω
Coil Inductance (Le) 1.27m H
Mechanical Q (Qms) 6.08
Electromagnetic Q (Qes) 0.41
Total Q (Qts) 0.38
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas) 159 liters / 5.62 cu.ft.
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms) 0.15 mm/N
BL Product (BL) 18.6 T-M
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (MMs) 105 grams
Efficiency Bandwidth Product (EBP) 95
Maximum Linear Excursion (Xmax) 5.5 mm
Surface Area of Cone (Sd) 856.3 cm2
Thanks in advance for the sims!
to make it a bit easier on X, put the info into standard Akabak input:
Def_Driver Eminence Kappalite 3015
fs=45
Mms = 84
Qms = 6.70
Qes = 0.36
Re = 5.27
BL= 18.6
Le = 0.64 mH
Vas = 152.82
Def_Driver Eminence Kappa12A
fs = 45
Mms = 42
Qms = 7.76
Qes = 0.28
Re = 5.41
BL = 15.2
Le = 0.77mH
Vas = 112.13
Def_Driver Eminence Kappa 15LFA
fs = 39
Mms = 105
Qms = 6.08
Qes = 0.41
Re = 5.4
BL = 18.6
Le = 1.27mH
Vas = 159
Def_Driver Eminence Kappalite 3015
fs=45
Mms = 84
Qms = 6.70
Qes = 0.36
Re = 5.27
BL= 18.6
Le = 0.64 mH
Vas = 152.82
Def_Driver Eminence Kappa12A
fs = 45
Mms = 42
Qms = 7.76
Qes = 0.28
Re = 5.41
BL = 15.2
Le = 0.77mH
Vas = 112.13
Def_Driver Eminence Kappa 15LFA
fs = 39
Mms = 105
Qms = 6.08
Qes = 0.41
Re = 5.4
BL = 18.6
Le = 1.27mH
Vas = 159
Thanks for the conversions to Akabak format for TS params Freddi.Hi ErikNils:
The Kappa 12A looks pretty nice with simple increase of width scaling by 13/12 or 1.08x in width, with depth and height staying at 1.00x:
Both the 3015 and 15LFA cab work well with a 1.33x (Height and Depth) and 1.42x (Width) scaled cabinet with a cabinet with a 34Hz tuning.
Here is Kappalite 3015:
Here is Kappa 15LFA:
Let me know which one you like and I can run cone excursion and max SPL estimates with a particular high pass filter for you. All these drivers are producing mid 95dB SPL sensitivity (with baffle step losses included with sitting on floor positioning - which is pretty nice sensitivity). The 15in ones are rather large cabinets, but if you have room, that would be some impressive bass.
Attachments
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Thanks for the sims xrk971!
I am a little disappointed by the bass response of the 12 inch. It is on par with the fostex fe206en that I built. I would have expected it to go at least 5Hz lower than the fostex. The 15" sims look very nice but indeed those cabs get pretty big.
To accommodate that size i may need to build them into a counter, effectively giving the speakers an infinitely wide baffle. How would that effect things? Looking at the sims I think I like the KappaLite the most. It has the same motor strength as the Kappa but a lot less moving mass.
I am a little disappointed by the bass response of the 12 inch. It is on par with the fostex fe206en that I built. I would have expected it to go at least 5Hz lower than the fostex. The 15" sims look very nice but indeed those cabs get pretty big.
To accommodate that size i may need to build them into a counter, effectively giving the speakers an infinitely wide baffle. How would that effect things? Looking at the sims I think I like the KappaLite the most. It has the same motor strength as the Kappa but a lot less moving mass.
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all of those sims look pretty good - mild boost EQ could be applied in the tuning region - - here's MMJ's 70 liter (airspace) Karlflex for comparison
Is there a way to tune the Karlsonator12 somewhat higher but keep the same basic outside dimensions (and aperture)?
A smaller than Karlsonator12 cabinet tuned higher would be welcome for some 10 inch speakers - like in-between
Karlsonator8 and Karlsonator12 size
to try in the stock Karlsonator 12, I have Pyle (Eminence) pym1298 (~same" as Kappa12a), Kappa 12a and 12cx with strong motor - but think fs is ~60Hz
Is there a way to tune the Karlsonator12 somewhat higher but keep the same basic outside dimensions (and aperture)?
A smaller than Karlsonator12 cabinet tuned higher would be welcome for some 10 inch speakers - like in-between
Karlsonator8 and Karlsonator12 size
to try in the stock Karlsonator 12, I have Pyle (Eminence) pym1298 (~same" as Kappa12a), Kappa 12a and 12cx with strong motor - but think fs is ~60Hz
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