Toppy,
That is a beautiful looking XK4, is that made of foam core or just wood painted white? That looks like a ff105wk? You should try it in a Karlsonator scaled down. Let me know if you want me to run a sim for you and we will see how well it can work. I really like the clear plexiglas wings! Regarding big orchestra, do you mean big band or big classical orchestra? I have played them with classical orchestra (Beethoven, Dvorak, Maler) and they handle them better than my other single driver full range cabinets - mainly due to the better dynamics and extended headroom afforded by a double driver setup. I have not tried big band but will do that today and get back to you. My guess is that it will be great due to clarity with brass and punch with drums.
Freddi,
You have the clear wings going too - nice! That is an interesting looking K15 with a ribbon tweeter stuck on one wing and what is on the other wing? It looks like a heat removal fan grill? How does it sound as a 3 way?
That is a beautiful looking XK4, is that made of foam core or just wood painted white? That looks like a ff105wk? You should try it in a Karlsonator scaled down. Let me know if you want me to run a sim for you and we will see how well it can work. I really like the clear plexiglas wings! Regarding big orchestra, do you mean big band or big classical orchestra? I have played them with classical orchestra (Beethoven, Dvorak, Maler) and they handle them better than my other single driver full range cabinets - mainly due to the better dynamics and extended headroom afforded by a double driver setup. I have not tried big band but will do that today and get back to you. My guess is that it will be great due to clarity with brass and punch with drums.
Freddi,
You have the clear wings going too - nice! That is an interesting looking K15 with a ribbon tweeter stuck on one wing and what is on the other wing? It looks like a heat removal fan grill? How does it sound as a 3 way?
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Freddi,
No I didn't see it before, interesting to see the way the front wings are fixed, this was a challenge to me.
xrk971,
The following picture should answer your question
Yes they are FF105WK.
For the Karlsonator I have a pair of car speakers..... I know....I know ..... but I placed them into one of my "production"
a mix of Fulmer and Karlson, sized over approximation..... and just to add insult to injury.....made of cardboard.
Here they are :
and they sound lovely for the amount of R&D I put in.
So I am proposing to send you the drawings of these so you could do a few sim and determine back & front volume etc.... let me know.
But they aren't easy to built.
No I didn't see it before, interesting to see the way the front wings are fixed, this was a challenge to me.
xrk971,
The following picture should answer your question
Yes they are FF105WK.
For the Karlsonator I have a pair of car speakers..... I know....I know ..... but I placed them into one of my "production"
a mix of Fulmer and Karlson, sized over approximation..... and just to add insult to injury.....made of cardboard.Here they are :
and they sound lovely for the amount of R&D I put in.
So I am proposing to send you the drawings of these so you could do a few sim and determine back & front volume etc.... let me know.
But they aren't easy to built.
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Interesting. What is a Fulmer? For car audio drivers do you have TS params otherwise cannot model unless you propose using with other drivers. They look great even made of cardboard.
I never knew that OSB could ever look that good
I put in the closest thing to a 'big band' orchestra - Harry Connick Jr's band and it sounds great on the mini Karlsonators. The initial horn crescendo has full impact and the level meter on the zoom H4 mic recorder showed great headroom.
I never knew that OSB could ever look that good
I put in the closest thing to a 'big band' orchestra - Harry Connick Jr's band and it sounds great on the mini Karlsonators. The initial horn crescendo has full impact and the level meter on the zoom H4 mic recorder showed great headroom.
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Fulmer patent here, look at fig.5 that's what I used
http://sinwen.free.fr/HIFI/Patent Fulmer US2787332.pdf
Here is the drawing in millimeters :
http://sinwen.free.fr/HIFI/Fulk plan.pdf
Here are the TS parameters :
Well for orchestra I mean anything with complex message, lets take for example the New World Symphonie from Dvorak, the recording might not be excellent but the difference between the Rogers and my XK4 is audible, more cleaner details. I may also move the speakers and see, it might be just that. But my flat is a bit stuck up right now.
http://sinwen.free.fr/HIFI/Patent Fulmer US2787332.pdf
Here is the drawing in millimeters :
http://sinwen.free.fr/HIFI/Fulk plan.pdf
Here are the TS parameters :
Well for orchestra I mean anything with complex message, lets take for example the New World Symphonie from Dvorak, the recording might not be excellent but the difference between the Rogers and my XK4 is audible, more cleaner details. I may also move the speakers and see, it might be just that. But my flat is a bit stuck up right now.
Mini K'nator as Ceiling Mount
It turns out that the cavity formed by the basement windows is exactly tall enough for me to fit the mini K'nator inside. I needed to get the speakers off the floor to keep young fingers from poking holes in the driver cones. Flipped upside down, they can still ceiling load for excellent bass and they carry farther now. Sounds very good and perfect for a rec room party. The translucent nature of foam core makes them very neat looking when backlit. Not too many other speakers look like this when illuminated. I should put color changing LED's inside one of these days...
It turns out that the cavity formed by the basement windows is exactly tall enough for me to fit the mini K'nator inside. I needed to get the speakers off the floor to keep young fingers from poking holes in the driver cones. Flipped upside down, they can still ceiling load for excellent bass and they carry farther now. Sounds very good and perfect for a rec room party. The translucent nature of foam core makes them very neat looking when backlit. Not too many other speakers look like this when illuminated. I should put color changing LED's inside one of these days...
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xrk971
These car speakers are 6,5'. As it has been said to me by Freddi and IG previously in the K's forum, they should do well in a SK6.5. How good could they be in a Karlsonator?
They will finish in one of this two type of K for sure one day, but this time made with a more serious material than cardboard.
OT :
They should also do well in an OB as the ideal Fs value for an OB is prouved to be 0.6/0.7, they aren't that far off with 0.8. They would need a 15'woofer or so in that case. Then trouble arise with fixing the filter values/drawing. Also OB need to be placed at least 3 feet off the back wall and MAF (my acceptance factor) doesn't allow that.
These car speakers are 6,5'. As it has been said to me by Freddi and IG previously in the K's forum, they should do well in a SK6.5. How good could they be in a Karlsonator?
They will finish in one of this two type of K for sure one day, but this time made with a more serious material than cardboard.
OT :
They should also do well in an OB as the ideal Fs value for an OB is prouved to be 0.6/0.7, they aren't that far off with 0.8. They would need a 15'woofer or so in that case. Then trouble arise with fixing the filter values/drawing. Also OB need to be placed at least 3 feet off the back wall and MAF (my acceptance factor) doesn't allow that.
Is your basement becoming a night-club?
Good idea to fully use the properties of the translucent material.I did made some tubes which were reflecting sound just few inches away form the ceiling thru K tube. It is an excellent position to fill up a room with music, it keep the stereo image very well no matter the listening placement in the room. But as I say, it was tubes so the back waves were right on the floor, you had the feeling that the all lenght of the tube were radiating music. Great experience but here again to get an excellent result you have to make calculations, lenght, diameter, K tube size etc... to get in the ball park. I am unable to do that. I have seen the potential but was too far from a sensible realistic baffle realisation.
Toppy,
Were you running K tubes with compression driver? I may take on modeling the K tube when I figure out how to model a compression driver in AkAbak. I will run a sim for you with your car audio driver in a scaled down K'nator. Speaking of OB, that was my latest foray into multiways with AkAbak and I simulated Linkwitz's PMT-1 OB speaker with crossover and all. With Linkwitz's design philosophy the baffle is narrow (12.5 in) and he makes bass through active or passive equalization and use of dipole subwoofer. So the speaker resembles a bookshelf size and not a refrigerator on the front. However, you still have the 3 ft from wall requirement which is true of all OB designs.
Were you running K tubes with compression driver? I may take on modeling the K tube when I figure out how to model a compression driver in AkAbak. I will run a sim for you with your car audio driver in a scaled down K'nator. Speaking of OB, that was my latest foray into multiways with AkAbak and I simulated Linkwitz's PMT-1 OB speaker with crossover and all. With Linkwitz's design philosophy the baffle is narrow (12.5 in) and he makes bass through active or passive equalization and use of dipole subwoofer. So the speaker resembles a bookshelf size and not a refrigerator on the front. However, you still have the 3 ft from wall requirement which is true of all OB designs.
Karsonator with SXE-1725S
Toppy,
Your driver works quite nicely in a Karsonator scaled to 9/15 in height and depth and scaled by 10/15 in width to get some more Vb. The vent is then scaled by an additional 2.2X after the other scalings are done. What results is a speaker that reach 40 Hz and has a nice response once BSC is added as it is kind of hot in upper bass/lower mid range. I used a 1.2 mH coil (assume 0.2 ohm inherent resistance) and 5 ohm resistor in parallel leading to positive terminal. First plot is freq response, second is impedance, third is cone displacement. Btw, I figured out how to add damping (stuffing) to AkAbak and this sim has it so a lot of fine hash and peaks is smoothed out.
Good luck on it, I hope you try it.
Toppy,
Your driver works quite nicely in a Karsonator scaled to 9/15 in height and depth and scaled by 10/15 in width to get some more Vb. The vent is then scaled by an additional 2.2X after the other scalings are done. What results is a speaker that reach 40 Hz and has a nice response once BSC is added as it is kind of hot in upper bass/lower mid range. I used a 1.2 mH coil (assume 0.2 ohm inherent resistance) and 5 ohm resistor in parallel leading to positive terminal. First plot is freq response, second is impedance, third is cone displacement. Btw, I figured out how to add damping (stuffing) to AkAbak and this sim has it so a lot of fine hash and peaks is smoothed out.
Good luck on it, I hope you try it.
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Thank a lot for this, I need a bit of time to get into it, you now I am not an expert, that's a lot of meat for me.
I 'll keep this preciously and get back to it when I am ready.
Right now I try to put back running a pair of Leak Sandwitch two ways 8 ohms. I have to redo the entire crossover and I am a genuine dummy.
I know the low pass should be 900Hz for the woofer, now I have the rest to figure out mainly the high pass for the small Audax which are planned to be paired with.
A lot of headache for my little brain
No, that was a normal shitty driver I should say, but I would never imagine the results.
Thank a lot for this, I need a bit of time to get into it, you now I am not an expert, that's a lot of meat for me.
I 'll keep this preciously and get back to it when I am ready.
Right now I try to put back running a pair of Leak Sandwitch two ways 8 ohms. I have to redo the entire crossover and I am a genuine dummy.
I know the low pass should be 900Hz for the woofer, now I have the rest to figure out mainly the high pass for the small Audax which are planned to be paired with.
A lot of headache for my little brain
If your driver allows it, pick a higher freq to crossover as ~1 kHz is a very bad spot to cross as your ears will be very sensitive to any phase anomalies when going from bass woofer to tweeter. 2.5 kHz is better if your woofer has enough bandwidth. Maybe buy a premade XO?
Mini Karlsonator with FE126EN
Nelson,
Here is the simulation of the mini Karlsonator with the FE126EN. The scaling dimensions that I arrived at are a little different due to the low Qts nature of this driver. It probably is not the ideal cabinet for this driver in any event but here is what I came up with. Length scaling is 0.5X, width and depth scaling is 0.43X, and then scale the vent width by 2X (after the length scaling). The FE126EN has such a hot rising response and there is not enough bass gain with this box (compared to a BLH) that I had to tame the upper freq with a 1.2mH//8 ohm resistor for a BSC.
Simulation plots are as follows:
- Freq response with speaker 6 in from back wall mic at 1 m
- Freq response with speaker 60 in from back wall mic at 1 m
- Impedance
- Driver cone displacement
- Impulse response
Observations: fairly deep bass extension to 50 Hz with quite a small cabinet of about 15 in high x 6.6 in wide (barely big enough to fit the driver flange); if you move it away from walls you will get rid of the room suck-out at 250 Hz but at the expense of bass enhancement from wall; the cone movement is a bit too high for the low xmax of this driver (0.3 mm) - but I have heard folks say movement of 1 mm is not bad sounding or damaging; the impulse response is fairly clean since the secondary peak is < 8 ms for minimal group delay.
It might be worth it to try it out in foam core first and see how you like it.
Regards,
X
Nelson,
Here is the simulation of the mini Karlsonator with the FE126EN. The scaling dimensions that I arrived at are a little different due to the low Qts nature of this driver. It probably is not the ideal cabinet for this driver in any event but here is what I came up with. Length scaling is 0.5X, width and depth scaling is 0.43X, and then scale the vent width by 2X (after the length scaling). The FE126EN has such a hot rising response and there is not enough bass gain with this box (compared to a BLH) that I had to tame the upper freq with a 1.2mH//8 ohm resistor for a BSC.
Simulation plots are as follows:
- Freq response with speaker 6 in from back wall mic at 1 m
- Freq response with speaker 60 in from back wall mic at 1 m
- Impedance
- Driver cone displacement
- Impulse response
Observations: fairly deep bass extension to 50 Hz with quite a small cabinet of about 15 in high x 6.6 in wide (barely big enough to fit the driver flange); if you move it away from walls you will get rid of the room suck-out at 250 Hz but at the expense of bass enhancement from wall; the cone movement is a bit too high for the low xmax of this driver (0.3 mm) - but I have heard folks say movement of 1 mm is not bad sounding or damaging; the impulse response is fairly clean since the secondary peak is < 8 ms for minimal group delay.
It might be worth it to try it out in foam core first and see how you like it.
Regards,
X
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Hi all. X helped me work out the specs for using an old Pioneer 4.5" full ranger (he posted the response here http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...lsonator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-7.html#post3568721). I did eventually build it (today) and have only tested it briefly. More soon, but you can read my initial assessment here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...board-speaker-enclosures-195.html#post3609789
Hey X, yes, I put it on the floor today, playing side-by-side with the BD Pipes which houses my other 2 copies of this driver. Quick assessment is that the bass is still kinda thin, though better (I'm spoiled by my 8" Pioneer BOFU full ranger in a BIG wooden TL box designed by Nelson Pass). More interestingly, the little Karlson is putting out more SPL than I thought, clearly besting the BD Pipes (which I like) in efficiency but also in clarity, speed, high end, and yes, bass. I don't have a mic and meter, and don't have a strong enough reference, but it does seem mid 90s at least (though I doubt 98dB).
In short, while it falls short on certain material, for most of my listening I'd be very happy with a pair - in foam core no less!
In short, while it falls short on certain material, for most of my listening I'd be very happy with a pair - in foam core no less!