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Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
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Old 31st October 2019, 01:28 PM   #3481
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
MrShazBot,
Thanks for sharing your dual 3FE25 Karlsonator build! If you take a sharp utility knife, you can trim and clean up that curved aperture to make it smoother. It will look better and maybe even sound nicer. Otherwise the construction looks good. If you have any pinhole air leaks in the sealed TL end above the drivers, or if the driver gaskets are leaky - you might lose some deeper bass. (In the same way that if you play a flute and you have a small leak on a finger pad, you can’t hit the low C note). I think mine don’t start to fall off until below 75Hz. But if you have a sub, doesn’t matter. Your measurements look great the wiggles in the mid are the nature of the K aperture. But your measurements are surprisingly balanced and neutral. The HF reach is remarkable.
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Old 31st October 2019, 02:39 PM   #3482
Mrshazbot is online now Mrshazbot  United States
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Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
Thanks. I doubled up the K aperture because it was really vibrating and making a slight noise. I couldn’t find my extra blades so I practically had to saw that last piece with a dull blade!

I’m sure I have a leak in the TL somewhere but it’s not a huge deal.

I’ll probably make a wood enclosure for it soon because I really like how it sounds.
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Old 31st October 2019, 04:50 PM   #3483
Skylar88 is offline Skylar88  South Africa
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I think that I'm the one who built the very first dual 3FE25-16 K's and I've been listening to it ever since. Like X says, there is bass down to below 80Hz, but it's always been weak, bass-wise.

Recently I've added an active sub and my Karlsonators came alive - especially the bass. It's like different speakers now. It sounds like the bass is coming from the Karlsonators, not the sub. So, a subwoofer or two with the Karlsonators is highly recommended.
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Old 31st October 2019, 06:33 PM   #3484
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
If you have Amazon Prime, a Polk PSW10 self contained 10in powered sub fills the need much more than adequately. I got mine on sale for $99 free shipping. Highly recommended.
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:41 PM   #3485
Lingwendil is offline Lingwendil  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrshazbot View Post
I finally finished putting my dual 3FE25’s together. This project proves that my arts and crafts skills are not very strong as they are very sloppy. I guess that's what happens when I am watching football and not really paying enough attention to straight cuts or the hot glue gun.

That being said, I am rather impressed with how they sound. They do not dig as deep as I hoped. Once they go below 100hz there isn't much left but it's okay, I have a sub to fill it in. I was very surprised how these little speakers can fill up the room with sound. They seem to have more high end detail then my Alpair 10p's, and the measurements confirm that. Sometimes voices seem a bit underwhelming but maybe it's the dip in the midrange on the measurements. I don't listen to much music with signing in it anyways.


Do these measurements look right? Do you see them and see some obvious thing I can do to bring in more bass or have more midrange? Disclosure - I am not a measurement pro and these are not perfect measurement conditions but I think they are close enough to make some observations.

I didn't follow the plans perfectly because I used the fold and score plans for the TC9FD's and just made the baffle (if that's what you call it) big enough to hold my speakers.
I still use my dual 3FE25-16 K's as my main speakers. I love them. Still working on adding a subwoofer, I have one from an old home theater kit and a small class D amp for it, just need to make a low pass filter for it, as the built in one crosses at ~150hz or so and I can't figure out the schematic from the PCB.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 05:09 AM   #3486
jwjarch is offline jwjarch  United States
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Default Mini Ks With Open Baffle Bass

I built some open baffles to experiment with adding more low end to my system this weekend. Theyre roughly based on John Buschs Manzanitas in terms of the GRS15 woofers, baffle size and wings and the 20mH inductor on the XO. I have an 8 Ohm mills resistor in series with the 0.53x Mini-k with dual 3fe25s. I like what Im hearing so far. They blend pretty well and give the low end I was missing along with some good punch on percussion. I think the woofers still need some break-in time to loosen up the surrounds and things will get even better. Maybe some more XO experimentation later this week too.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg EB692543-7EEB-4910-9412-2CD0D31FE3EC.jpg (686.1 KB, 143 views)
File Type: jpg 7E1AC723-77DD-4946-A6A2-DDF4774E975D.jpg (689.5 KB, 144 views)
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Old 2nd December 2019, 12:17 PM   #3487
twocents is offline twocents  South Africa
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Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwjarch View Post
I built some open baffles to experiment with adding more low end to my system this weekend. Theyre roughly based on John Buschs Manzanitas in terms of the GRS15 woofers, baffle size and wings and the 20mH inductor on the XO. I have an 8 Ohm mills resistor in series with the 0.53x Mini-k with dual 3fe25s. I like what Im hearing so far. They blend pretty well and give the low end I was missing along with some good punch on percussion. I think the woofers still need some break-in time to loosen up the surrounds and things will get even better. Maybe some more XO experimentation later this week too.
Thanks for sharing. I have been thinking about doing something similar for a long time now and might just attempt it early next year. Are you running both sets of speakers from one amp? I am planning to try bi-amping but not sure how to implement the XO yet.

Your Manzanita like baffles are slightly different with the added wings to the front of the baffle. What is the reason for this? Getting closer to a H frame. I will be using a 12 driver, so Ill be using the 12 Manzanita baffle size and add some wings (maybe 4) to the back only.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 04:38 PM   #3488
jwjarch is offline jwjarch  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twocents View Post
Thanks for sharing. I have been thinking about doing something similar for a long time now and might just attempt it early next year. Are you running both sets of speakers from one amp? I am planning to try bi-amping but not sure how to implement the XO yet.

Your Manzanita like baffles are slightly different with the added wings to the front of the baffle. What is the reason for this? Getting closer to a H frame. I will be using a 12 driver, so Ill be using the 12 Manzanita baffle size and add some wings (maybe 4) to the back only.
Hi twocents. Yes, theyre running off of a single amp. Right now its my F7 clone (Class A with lateral mosfets) and have a WHAMMY as the pre. Great combo and still plenty of headroom left even with 20-ish Watts. According to my XSim simulation this combo should still be about 88-90db efficient.

Check out the Manzanita thread around post #1776 for an explanation of the wings by John Busch. He did 2.5 in the front and 5 in the back. I would think its getting closer to an H frame, yes. He may have also given some info about using this with the 12 peerless woofer later in the thread.

I can say the experiment was worth it if youre looking for extended, toneful lows. Its still not going to give you earthshaking, window rattling bass, but thats not what Im after. It was a plus I already had my table saw set up for another home improvement project so I was able to cut the parts from 4x4 of mdf with almost zero waste. I put them together in about 3-4 hours of work from start to finish.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 09:57 PM   #3489
jwjarch is offline jwjarch  United States
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twocents, if you, or anyone else is interested, here are my CAD drawings for the open baffle section.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf GRS15 OB Bass Section - Cuts.pdf (76.9 KB, 18 views)
File Type: pdf GRS15 OB Bass Section - Assem.pdf (2.5 KB, 20 views)
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Old 2nd December 2019, 10:05 PM   #3490
xrk971 is online now xrk971  United States
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Mini Karlsonator (0.53X) with Dual TC9FD's
Nice work Jwarch! It must sound great. I can imagine the sound of the open baffle bass is very clean, dry, and tight. Not flappy. Bravo!


Btw, thanks for plans!

I am in the kitchen working on the computer and listening to Diana Krall on my dual 3FE25-16’s in the wooden cabinets that Jhofland made for me. Beautiful sound. No sub but still great.

I am using a basic commercial boxed Class D amp with an Amazon Dot as the source. Works great for a kitchen radio.
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