The natural tuning of a Karlsonator is about 40 to 45Hz. The Kappa's are pro audio drivers with rather high Fs - and are designed for sensitivity and high power handling. If you want to go deeper - pick a higher moderate Qts driver. You won't get mid 95dB sensitivity though. Really, for most music, getting close to 41Hz is all you need. I don't think a Kappalite 12 will get you this kind of sensitivity at 45Hz in a bass reflex. Remember, these are predicted values with baffle step included.
If you want 5Hz more - I could make cabinet taller and deeper and make them skinnier. Might get you 5Hz more.
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I was wondering if the Alpha 12a is compatible with the Karlsonator. The VAS and Q seem a little high. But the driver is a lot cheaper. It can only handle 150 watt instead of 450 for the kappa but that is plenty for me. I will not exceed loud living room listening and none of my amps go beyond 120w anyway. Would the Alpha go as low as the Kappa? Can the Alpha also go a bit lower in a narrower/deeper/taller Karlsonator 12?
Def_Driver Eminence Delta 12a
fs = 49
Mms = 33
Qms = 6.53
Qes = 0.88
Re = 6.3
BL = 8.5
Le = 0.79mH
Vas = 121.5
Def_Driver Eminence Delta 12a
fs = 49
Mms = 33
Qms = 6.53
Qes = 0.88
Re = 6.3
BL = 8.5
Le = 0.79mH
Vas = 121.5
I just had a Karlsonator hallucination. One of the drawbacks of the Karlson style cabinets is the large footprint. Would this arrangement make a smaller footprint possible (same volume and two drivers with same combined SD) with the same performance as a "short and fat" Karlsonator?
I attached my crappy sketch...
I attached my crappy sketch...
Ok, I will run it...
It's appreciated that you and Freddi try to put it into the proper Akabak format. Please use this format for Akabak TS params. It needs Sd, no spaces around equals sign, and units needed for Fs, MMs, Re, Bl, Vas, Le. Good to have xmax, max power, Qts in comments as indicated after the | .
For example, this is what I converted it to before it can be processed without error message:
The Delta 12A gives very good pro-audio style response with 98dB sensitivity and a flat response not needing BSC or EQ. It has -3dB of 60Hz which is not bad and the bass has a very shallow decay tail to give an impressive "pro sound". It doesn't have deep deep bass, but for most music this can sound very nice. The 98dB sensitivity is quite astounding actually. But I fear you may not like it as it doesn't have that deep 40Hz punch. On the other hand, drums will sound excellent as the shallow rolloff means very low group delay. So the timing will be superb.
Here is 1.08x scale (13/12 scale):
Here is 1.08x scale (13/12 scale):
Attachments
That's interesting. Not a bad sketch actually and you are quite a talented draftsman.
The TL is now open-open with two stubs. A completely different animal. It sort of looks like my XKi dual driver sub.
You could put a wall where bottom of cabinet was anndif would work. Otherwise it will be different. I could simulate it but think what happens is probably tuning is cut in half so 40Hz is now 80Hz. So less bass.
Hard to say. I never built full scale. Freddi could probably have clue. I was close to making one with a Beta12cx.
For a common 12" woofer to mate to a K-tube (or possibly a waveguide) on top- I like Eminence's Kappa12A - of course it needs some power - I would not use a flea watt or 2A3SE with such a speaker. Kappa12A will take 200 watt peaks easily in a K12.
For 10", I've used Eminence's old spec B102 - I think the midrange on the new model may be too weak to balance. Delta 10A is pretty strong but has a peak that must be addressed in its lowpass filter.
For a fullrange 12 , Beta12LTA with a helper tweeter would work. - It will have less "kick" than the Kappa12A. Beta12LTA made some bass in the Karlsonator12.
For fullrange 8" - FE206E on an adapter ring will work pretty well. I would use standard cutout for 12" and the adapter to give more flexibility so 10 and 8 could be used.
For coax - Beta12CX should be OK (xrk971 should have an opinion) - it may have a somewhat better midrange than Beta10CX. Beta10CX may have a more incisive "kick" I have a K12 with Beyma's old 12CX which sounds good.
Beta12CX could use another 16-20 ounces of magnet.
Speakers with reasonably strong motors and gently rising response may be most appropriate. I think Delta12A fits that description.
I'm pretty much limited to Eminence as its the standard in the US
my apologies to X for messing up the Akabak input.
For 10", I've used Eminence's old spec B102 - I think the midrange on the new model may be too weak to balance. Delta 10A is pretty strong but has a peak that must be addressed in its lowpass filter.
For a fullrange 12 , Beta12LTA with a helper tweeter would work. - It will have less "kick" than the Kappa12A. Beta12LTA made some bass in the Karlsonator12.
For fullrange 8" - FE206E on an adapter ring will work pretty well. I would use standard cutout for 12" and the adapter to give more flexibility so 10 and 8 could be used.
For coax - Beta12CX should be OK (xrk971 should have an opinion) - it may have a somewhat better midrange than Beta10CX. Beta10CX may have a more incisive "kick" I have a K12 with Beyma's old 12CX which sounds good.
Beta12CX could use another 16-20 ounces of magnet.
Speakers with reasonably strong motors and gently rising response may be most appropriate. I think Delta12A fits that description.
I'm pretty much limited to Eminence as its the standard in the US
my apologies to X for messing up the Akabak input.
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The Delta 12A gives very good pro-audio style response with 98dB sensitivity and a flat response not needing BSC or EQ. It has -3dB of 60Hz which is not bad and the bass has a very shallow decay tail to give an impressive "pro sound". It doesn't have deep deep bass, but for most music this can sound very nice. The 98dB sensitivity is quite astounding actually. But I fear you may not like it as it doesn't have that deep 40Hz punch. On the other hand, drums will sound excellent as the shallow rolloff means very low group delay. So the timing will be superb.
Here is 1.08x scale (13/12 scale):
I messed up again. I gave the data for the Eminence Alpha 12a but I entered it while being in the middle of a food poisoning episode and accidentally called it the Delta 12a. This sim is the Alpha 12a! Sorry.
Delta 10A does look nice - - seems to me its old published response curve looked more like the current Delta Pro12A . Delta Pro12A with mms=48g looks like a nice driver and suggested for a vented Heresy style project
for what its worth I think I'd prefer a single vent in K12 to 6-narrow slits but have heard the latter work pretty well.
the second response curve is Eminence's published Beta12LTA
A Karlson 12 isn't much larger than the old "Large Advent" speaker
that's a B&C 12PE32 in the K12- - A Kappa 12A is a bit stronger on the low end than the highly
damped 12PE32
for what its worth I think I'd prefer a single vent in K12 to 6-narrow slits but have heard the latter work pretty well.
the second response curve is Eminence's published Beta12LTA
A Karlson 12 isn't much larger than the old "Large Advent" speaker
that's a B&C 12PE32 in the K12- - A Kappa 12A is a bit stronger on the low end than the highly
damped 12PE32
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@xrk971: Here is a new sketch of my "Double Karlsonator Tower".
I just found out I can get Peerless drivers as an alternative to the Eminences. Could you try to sim this with the below Peerless 6.5" driver? I put some size suggestions in the drawing but you can change them around to get a better sim. I have high hopes for the bass performance for this combination.
Def_Driver 'P830875' | Peerless P830875 Qts 0.36, 5.3mm xmax, 100w 89.5dB
Sd=143.1cm2
fs=46Hz
Mms=15.9g
Qms=3.2
Qes=0.41
Re=7.18ohm
BL=8.95Tm
Le=0.79mH
Vas=21.78L
I just found out I can get Peerless drivers as an alternative to the Eminences. Could you try to sim this with the below Peerless 6.5" driver? I put some size suggestions in the drawing but you can change them around to get a better sim. I have high hopes for the bass performance for this combination.
Def_Driver 'P830875' | Peerless P830875 Qts 0.36, 5.3mm xmax, 100w 89.5dB
Sd=143.1cm2
fs=46Hz
Mms=15.9g
Qms=3.2
Qes=0.41
Re=7.18ohm
BL=8.95Tm
Le=0.79mH
Vas=21.78L
The P830875 is a very nice driver for a 0.58x scale Karlsonator. You get -3dB of 55Hz which is very good as that will capture most kick drums. The 90dB response after baffle step loss is excellent. If you were to stack them as drawn on your picture, and wire them in parallel for nominal 4ohms load, the response will be +6dB for same voltage. A 96dB at 2.83v speaker is awesome and not kidding around.
Attachments
Nice flat reaponse. Would the setup with two of these Peerless drivers in a shared front chamber lower f3 or does it only raise the sensitivity?
It seems I will have to move up to using the double setup with two 8 inch versions of these drivers. These have a lot lower fs.
Def_Driver '830869' | Peerless 830869 Qts 0.31, 5.5mm xmax, 150w 90.2dB
Sd=227cm2
fs=30Hz
Mms=23.99g
Qms=4.4
Qes=0.33
Re=5.9ohm
BL=8.92Tm
Le=0.63mH
Vas=87.5L
It seems I will have to move up to using the double setup with two 8 inch versions of these drivers. These have a lot lower fs.
Def_Driver '830869' | Peerless 830869 Qts 0.31, 5.5mm xmax, 150w 90.2dB
Sd=227cm2
fs=30Hz
Mms=23.99g
Qms=4.4
Qes=0.33
Re=5.9ohm
BL=8.92Tm
Le=0.63mH
Vas=87.5L
You won't get any bass extension enhancement by that placement. You could also put two drivers in the same enclosure with size increased nominally - like the dual PA130 that was made earlier in this thread.
The P830869 looks very good in a 0.83x (Height and Depth) and 0.67x (Width) Karlosnator with 92dB sensitivity and a -3dB point at 45Hz.
The P830869 looks very good in a 0.83x (Height and Depth) and 0.67x (Width) Karlosnator with 92dB sensitivity and a -3dB point at 45Hz.
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Karlsonator 12 indeed. I had a different project before with some scale Karlsonator 12 but someone cut the mdf at the original scale. So now I have a pair of Karlsonator 12 enclosure and I am looking for a driver that will fit.
The best driver
