I like those little mono 3116 amps - they literally will fit a pants pocket 
. - A 20v drill battery is handy for power.
my 95lb parallel 2A3 /5842q amp will probably be dismantled and sold for parts - unless someone will drive and pick it up - no one listened to it nor my Karlson stuff or horns - I'm getting too old and rickety for heavy stuff.
. - A 20v drill battery is handy for power.my 95lb parallel 2A3 /5842q amp will probably be dismantled and sold for parts - unless someone will drive and pick it up - no one listened to it nor my Karlson stuff or horns - I'm getting too old and rickety for heavy stuff.
Bell Labs, Whippany used to run listener tests at lunch time with various amp and speaker combinations. The audience would eat lunch while they listened and rate the performance.. I wasn't there but a fellow engineer that participated was surprised that with a quality speaker system they couldn't tell any difference between the performance of the lowly Qual KIt 6V6 amp and a high end McIntosh. Yet most of my friends purchased or built high end amps then ran out of money and purchased cheap speakers.
Nowadays with MP3s I am using my little XKi/K5s with a 2x40 class D Blue Tooth amp and am perfectly satisfied. I have a BIC system with a sub connected to my TV but I seldom turn my FM tuner or CD player on anymore. I can also stream YouTube to the Roku stick on the TV or use an HDMI cable to mirror anything from my Chromebook. I also seldom use my PC.
Nowadays with MP3s I am using my little XKi/K5s with a 2x40 class D Blue Tooth amp and am perfectly satisfied. I have a BIC system with a sub connected to my TV but I seldom turn my FM tuner or CD player on anymore. I can also stream YouTube to the Roku stick on the TV or use an HDMI cable to mirror anything from my Chromebook. I also seldom use my PC.
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I like those little mono 3116 amps - they literally will fit a pants pocket
my 95lb parallel 2A3 /5842q amp will probably be dismantled and sold for parts - unless someone will drive and pick it up - no one listened to it nor my Karlson stuff or horns - I'm getting too old and rickety for heavy stuff.
There is a good reason the TPA3116 thread is the most popular one on DIYA with 3.25M views. It's a surprisngly good sounding amp for peanuts. It has a nasty turn on/off pop though.
TPA3116D2 Amp
Small Class D and even chip amps, cannot compete with one of my discrete Class AB or Class A amps though, sound quality wise.
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for a sub - sat system, a little K8 size as "X8" with internal K-tube could be fun and reasonably dynamic. That probably could be made to play smoother than my "SK8" below (listen). A modest compression driver would work. Delta Pro8A has rather low Qts but that makes it reasonably snappy.
Maybe a 12" XKi with a plate amp could be the sub.
Use headphones. I think it would have been better w/o the curved reflector. Different vent placement probably would help too. Back chamber size could be reduced for better power handling.
Do not be timid about trying such apertures as the one below. That might come in handy when midrange output
for a particular driver is marginal for tonal balance.
Karlson Coupler with Eminence Delta Pro 8A speaker - YouTube
Maybe a 12" XKi with a plate amp could be the sub.
Use headphones. I think it would have been better w/o the curved reflector. Different vent placement probably would help too. Back chamber size could be reduced for better power handling.
Do not be timid about trying such apertures as the one below. That might come in handy when midrange output
for a particular driver is marginal for tonal balance.
Karlson Coupler with Eminence Delta Pro 8A speaker - YouTube
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Trio T15 in Karlson
I try many speaker on the Karlson K15, recently I put inside a 10 inch Trio T15 I'm very surprise that his sound very good I have nice bass, beter that many 15 inch. I put a Phi Horn for mid with a 4 inch and a Iawata Horn with a 1 inch driver.
I try many speaker on the Karlson K15, recently I put inside a 10 inch Trio T15 I'm very surprise that his sound very good I have nice bass, beter that many 15 inch. I put a Phi Horn for mid with a 4 inch and a Iawata Horn with a 1 inch driver.
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hi achille49 ,
that's a fine looking factory K15 and beautiful horns (especially Iwata) on top. horn
What 10" driver are you using? Does the Phi ("Pi"?) horn have a back chamber?
Where are the approximate crossover points?
fwiw I tried the late Bruce Edgar's LE5 tractrix horn on top of K15 but it didn't merge well. I did like a wide radial horn rolled in around 700Hz plus ring radiator treble.
I'm hoping for an alternative to horns - maybe for smaller rooms.
https://i.imgur.com/c5lTDQu.jpg
that's a fine looking factory K15 and beautiful horns (especially Iwata) on top. horn
What 10" driver are you using? Does the Phi ("Pi"?) horn have a back chamber?
Where are the approximate crossover points?
fwiw I tried the late Bruce Edgar's LE5 tractrix horn on top of K15 but it didn't merge well. I did like a wide radial horn rolled in around 700Hz plus ring radiator treble.
I'm hoping for an alternative to horns - maybe for smaller rooms.
https://i.imgur.com/c5lTDQu.jpg
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Hi Freddi
I put a Trio T15 it's a coaxial speaker it's was design for Trio/Kenwood LS 770 box, I don't use it in full range on the Karlson K15. I had no expextation about the T15 in the Carlson, I just try and it's the best sound I have in this box,
I built the Iawata and the PHI horn few years ago, the Phi horn have a back chamber 7X12X22, it's was dessign for a Eminence Delta 10, for a 500 Hz crosspoint a smaller back chamber was OK.
the crossover point are 500Hz and 5000Hz
For the top I try a Tang Bang W5-2143 it's just a 90 db sensitivity the trio T15 it's more sensitivity around 98 db on the Carlson, after I try a old 8 inch Tesla ARO666 with Fountek Neo CD2, not bad, the Tesla his rating at 5 watts it's a litle bit fragile. The wood horn give a real presence at the sound I prefer wood (birch plywood) horn than metal or plastic horn
I put a Trio T15 it's a coaxial speaker it's was design for Trio/Kenwood LS 770 box, I don't use it in full range on the Karlson K15. I had no expextation about the T15 in the Carlson, I just try and it's the best sound I have in this box,
I built the Iawata and the PHI horn few years ago, the Phi horn have a back chamber 7X12X22, it's was dessign for a Eminence Delta 10, for a 500 Hz crosspoint a smaller back chamber was OK.
the crossover point are 500Hz and 5000Hz
For the top I try a Tang Bang W5-2143 it's just a 90 db sensitivity the trio T15 it's more sensitivity around 98 db on the Carlson, after I try a old 8 inch Tesla ARO666 with Fountek Neo CD2, not bad, the Tesla his rating at 5 watts it's a litle bit fragile. The wood horn give a real presence at the sound I prefer wood (birch plywood) horn than metal or plastic horn
Has anyone made a larger Karlson with an 18" driver? What response would that have?
Back in the 80s when I went to high school in Germany, we had a pair of Karlson 15s we used for school dance parties with EV 15s. I remember those at the time being an odd type of enclosure not having ever seen a Karlson before. They played pretty loud and punchy but didn't go that low. We always stuck them in corners to get more low end. After I graduated, some idiot kids converted them into basic ported boxes, which ruined them completely.
Back in the 80s when I went to high school in Germany, we had a pair of Karlson 15s we used for school dance parties with EV 15s. I remember those at the time being an odd type of enclosure not having ever seen a Karlson before. They played pretty loud and punchy but didn't go that low. We always stuck them in corners to get more low end. After I graduated, some idiot kids converted them into basic ported boxes, which ruined them completely.
according to my little "Karlson Compendium" thread, one brochure shows John Karlson marketed a "K18".
A Karlson Compendium - Part One - "A New Approach in Loudspeaker Enclosures"
Some years later after Karlson's death, Cetec-Gauss made a K18 for bass guitar. (It was developed "empirically")
.
https://i.imgur.com/xZ2nd4Y.jpg
I've tried 18" in several size cabinets but none much above
K15's bulk. One K18 has a curved upper reflector and beautiful sound on vocals. Those made like a "big K12" with 10 degree cant port panel sounded pretty good too. The first few inches of aperture slot going down from the top can be critical to subjective success and don't think that will show on a few mic positions.
A smoothing "stub" can be added to the front chamber to flatten a cavity peak (if there's one - See entries on "Karlflex")
Metro Audio's T15 type (or XRK971's "XKi" method) would be one way to lay out a K-type to go lower for a given bulk as less emphasis and size dedicated to the front chamber and more on a lower tuned vent. It also can result in a more cubical aspect if one wishes.
A quarter wave rear load might be one way to make a new K with lower cutoff. Moray James made little K that way for Fostex fullrange.
Tall tapped pipe or tapped horn style K should be possible keeping a slanted baffle at the mouth.
TB46 and Matthew Morgan J published K-type designs with offset to smooth the basic response. I think if you come up with an idea, both would be willing to help.
A Karlson Compendium - Part One - "A New Approach in Loudspeaker Enclosures"
Some years later after Karlson's death, Cetec-Gauss made a K18 for bass guitar. (It was developed "empirically")
.
https://i.imgur.com/xZ2nd4Y.jpg
I've tried 18" in several size cabinets but none much above
K15's bulk. One K18 has a curved upper reflector and beautiful sound on vocals. Those made like a "big K12" with 10 degree cant port panel sounded pretty good too. The first few inches of aperture slot going down from the top can be critical to subjective success and don't think that will show on a few mic positions.
A smoothing "stub" can be added to the front chamber to flatten a cavity peak (if there's one - See entries on "Karlflex")
Metro Audio's T15 type (or XRK971's "XKi" method) would be one way to lay out a K-type to go lower for a given bulk as less emphasis and size dedicated to the front chamber and more on a lower tuned vent. It also can result in a more cubical aspect if one wishes.
A quarter wave rear load might be one way to make a new K with lower cutoff. Moray James made little K that way for Fostex fullrange.
Tall tapped pipe or tapped horn style K should be possible keeping a slanted baffle at the mouth.
TB46 and Matthew Morgan J published K-type designs with offset to smooth the basic response. I think if you come up with an idea, both would be willing to help.
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Thanks for the info Freddi - I suspected an 18 was done before.
Would you say the efficiency of a K18 would be similar to a similarly sized tapped horn?
40 Hz cutoff is nothing to sneeze at for that size of cab.
The K tube looks intriguing. Is there any science behind the dimensions matching up to the CD and which one works better than others? I assume any higher end 1" CD that measures well in a plane wave tube will work well on a K tube?
Would you say the efficiency of a K18 would be similar to a similarly sized tapped horn?
40 Hz cutoff is nothing to sneeze at for that size of cab.
The K tube looks intriguing. Is there any science behind the dimensions matching up to the CD and which one works better than others? I assume any higher end 1" CD that measures well in a plane wave tube will work well on a K tube?
Hi Profiguy
Moray James says to pick K-tube length based on 1/4 wave based on the compression driver's Z peak. Moray also likes the double slot K-tube. (I found that one interesting too - Pelanj posted 3D print files for: single slot, double slot, and mini-klam. I can see the mini-klam working for high wall mounted speakers)
Do you have a compression driver free to play with? - if so, make a tube about 5.5nches long with a half ellipse based slot - paper would do to get an idea of what's going on. Use a highpass 1.5K or higher depending upon highpass slope and driver. The single tube is typically elevated 20-30 degrees with slot facing "down"
Transylvania Power Company's "The Tube" is a good model to copy. It had sidewalls which downward sloped 2 degrees but straight pipe tube will work about the same.
Here's a little coupler of mine topped with a tube and cheap Dayton CD
(That's John French drumming - analog recording on CD - use headphones if handy and play "loud" - lol. Its a Zoom cam xy mic recording. I'd love to have a proper curved reflector K12 size K-coupler with provision for internal K-tube.
Karlson Coupler with Eminence Delta Pro 8A speaker - YouTube
Look at these K-tube threads:
Fieldcoil + K-tube
3D printed K-Tube for 1" compression drivers
Moray James says to pick K-tube length based on 1/4 wave based on the compression driver's Z peak. Moray also likes the double slot K-tube. (I found that one interesting too - Pelanj posted 3D print files for: single slot, double slot, and mini-klam. I can see the mini-klam working for high wall mounted speakers)
Do you have a compression driver free to play with? - if so, make a tube about 5.5nches long with a half ellipse based slot - paper would do to get an idea of what's going on. Use a highpass 1.5K or higher depending upon highpass slope and driver. The single tube is typically elevated 20-30 degrees with slot facing "down"
Transylvania Power Company's "The Tube" is a good model to copy. It had sidewalls which downward sloped 2 degrees but straight pipe tube will work about the same.
Here's a little coupler of mine topped with a tube and cheap Dayton CD
(That's John French drumming - analog recording on CD - use headphones if handy and play "loud" - lol. Its a Zoom cam xy mic recording. I'd love to have a proper curved reflector K12 size K-coupler with provision for internal K-tube.
Karlson Coupler with Eminence Delta Pro 8A speaker - YouTube
Look at these K-tube threads:
Fieldcoil + K-tube
3D printed K-Tube for 1" compression drivers
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Wow thanks for all that info! I figured you're the guy to ask.
That video is impressive even though it's hard to discern audio quality from YouTube depending on upload quality, compression and recording setup. I do like what I'm hearing though. Beta 8A is a great driver - I use them alot.
Compression driver i prefer for typical small format pro audio is the Faital HF10AK. I have one buried somewhere on my shelves. I also like the B&C DE250.
How would the correct tuning length look based on free air CD impedance curve vs with correct length K tube? Its hard to believe that midrange and too end is coming from that little tube stuck on the driver.
That video is impressive even though it's hard to discern audio quality from YouTube depending on upload quality, compression and recording setup. I do like what I'm hearing though. Beta 8A is a great driver - I use them alot.
Compression driver i prefer for typical small format pro audio is the Faital HF10AK. I have one buried somewhere on my shelves. I also like the B&C DE250.
How would the correct tuning length look based on free air CD impedance curve vs with correct length K tube? Its hard to believe that midrange and too end is coming from that little tube stuck on the driver.
hi profiguy
for your Faital I would first try a tube roughly the size of Transylvania's K-tube whose slot is 5.3" long and starts with an ~ 1/8" gap
You could eyeball it real quick with a paper tube, or print a half ellipse paper template based on a full ellipse with an 11.6" major axis and minor axis = (pi* pipe OD) - 0.125". Tape that to the pipe, mark, then cut with a rotary tool.
I would not try to xover lower than 1K4 2nd order HP as a tiny pipe just doesn't have gain like horns typically employed in that xover region.
One thing to consider - it may be helpful to have a sizable baffle at the driver's exit plane with lower crosser points to lend some support.
Cardboard would be your friend for testing the subjective and response effects.
If you have access to a 3D printer, then Pelanj has files to print in one inch cd format: a single slot - a double slot- and a mini-klam lens. The double slot tube is interesting. I think the aperture on the mini-klam lens might be opened a bit more and I envision it useful for speakers ear level up to the wall-ceiling junction.
I assume Moray says measure a bare driver, note the frequency of its major peak, then cut a K-tube to a quarter length of that frequency.
- -
can't remember the highpass on that BetaPro8A to tube. It was probably a generic Eminence board. Their 3rd order highpass tend to roll in ~1K4 for the 1K8 2-way board and 2K8 for their 3K5 board. I like Beta Pro 8A.
DE250 is good on a K-tube - I'd imagine your Faital to sound "better"
for your Faital I would first try a tube roughly the size of Transylvania's K-tube whose slot is 5.3" long and starts with an ~ 1/8" gap
You could eyeball it real quick with a paper tube, or print a half ellipse paper template based on a full ellipse with an 11.6" major axis and minor axis = (pi* pipe OD) - 0.125". Tape that to the pipe, mark, then cut with a rotary tool.
I would not try to xover lower than 1K4 2nd order HP as a tiny pipe just doesn't have gain like horns typically employed in that xover region.
One thing to consider - it may be helpful to have a sizable baffle at the driver's exit plane with lower crosser points to lend some support.
Cardboard would be your friend for testing the subjective and response effects.
If you have access to a 3D printer, then Pelanj has files to print in one inch cd format: a single slot - a double slot- and a mini-klam lens. The double slot tube is interesting. I think the aperture on the mini-klam lens might be opened a bit more and I envision it useful for speakers ear level up to the wall-ceiling junction.
I assume Moray says measure a bare driver, note the frequency of its major peak, then cut a K-tube to a quarter length of that frequency.
- -
can't remember the highpass on that BetaPro8A to tube. It was probably a generic Eminence board. Their 3rd order highpass tend to roll in ~1K4 for the 1K8 2-way board and 2K8 for their 3K5 board. I like Beta Pro 8A.
DE250 is good on a K-tube - I'd imagine your Faital to sound "better"
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