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A Speaker that Kicks Butt in Large Spaces
A Speaker that Kicks Butt in Large Spaces
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Old 10th January 2021, 01:01 PM   #1331
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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Good - it would be interesting to see what might work.
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:13 PM   #1332
ripson is offline ripson  Europe
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Guys, so I build Karlsonator 0.53x with dual 3FE25-16 based on XRK recommendations over 2 years ago. I'm super happy with them. I got all what I needed: amazing soundstage (despite position), details and fantastic separation of instruments, super tight bass, wonderfull female voices, even harsh high frequencies are gone, the cymbals sound realistic, these are super hot speakers! The bass fade out quickly somewhere between 55Hz and 60Hz - the fs of my speakers is about 10Hz higher than on the specs. I plan to build another pair made of 12mm plywood but with some 6mm internal bracing.



But it can't be the end. I need to build something new, something "better"? It doesn't have to be as efficient as 96dB (it would be great if so), but I would like to go lower with the bass.



I own a pair of Markaudio Alpair 12P matched at fs=44Hz (my T/S measurements are identical to the specs), Qts is at the range where Karlson/Karlsonator might be the way to go... or maybe something else?
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:24 PM   #1333
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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A Speaker that Kicks Butt in Large Spaces
Build the 10F/RS225 TLs. They are an endgame speaker for many people, I think. I certainly cannot complain about lack of bass or anything. They do everything well. Just not super efficient so need a 50w to 100w amp.

Latest build by Mas Penk looks wonderful.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 13th January 2021, 10:49 PM   #1334
ripson is offline ripson  Europe
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Thank you XRK, just started reading your thread from the beginning
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Old 16th January 2021, 01:18 AM   #1335
ripson is offline ripson  Europe
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Regarding Karlsonator it's impossible that these are 96dB at 2.82V 1m. 3FE25-16 specs says 90dB so for two it should be +6dB. But they are noticaebly quiter comparing to speakers with 91.5dB. Not sure why... They are not a good match for 45 tube amp I am affriad :/
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Old 16th January 2021, 02:16 AM   #1336
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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I am not sure why you are not getting higher sensitivity from them. The math says two 90dB at 2.83v 16ohm drivers in parallel should be 96dB at 2.83v.

Gorgeous build you did on the Karlsonators though!
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 16th January 2021, 11:56 AM   #1337
ripson is offline ripson  Europe
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thank you XRK



Unless... the specs of 3FE25-16 says "Sensitivity (1W/1m) 90 dB", to get 1W from 16 Ohm speaker we need to provide 4V (not 2.83V) (4V*4V)/16Ohm = 1W.
If I am not mistaken at 2.83V we get 3dB less, sqrt(2) times less, which means 3FE25-16 has 87dB 2.83V 1m and with two (8 Ohm) theoretically we are getting +6dB which is 93dB 2.83V (1W) 1m. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Last edited by ripson; 16th January 2021 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 16th January 2021, 03:21 PM   #1338
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Hi Ripson,
I think you are right and that explains why they probably are closer to 93dB st 2.83v. The confusion for me came from the Parts Express website description which says 90dB at 2.83v and 1m.

The Faital Pro factory datasheet indeed says 90dB at 1W and 1m.

Thanks - and we now see why. But 93dB is still pretty good and why you get less than perceived 91.5dB of your other speaker, might be that the other one has more mid and end presence (less baffle step correction) and sounds louder. A microphone and REW will tell you.
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Old 16th January 2021, 05:22 PM   #1339
ripson is offline ripson  Europe
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No probs X, they sound great with Mr. Nelson Pass F5, I need to find plans for some super sensitive speakers for 45 tube amp, it's going to run without global negative feedback so it should play at lower levels before harmonics rise too much.


X, did you have a chance to measure T/S of 3FE25-16? My method is quite precise as I got exactly the same results with Alpair 12P as manufacturer specs says, but measured fs for 3FE25-16 are: 131Hz, 129Hz, 130Hz, 125Hz. The specs says 110Hz. Is it normal or I got some worse sort? :/


EDIT:
Click the image to open in full size.


Or maybe a layer of dammar oil improve them a bit :O

Last edited by ripson; 16th January 2021 at 05:34 PM.
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Old 16th January 2021, 07:30 PM   #1340
freddi is offline freddi  United States
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seems about normal to see fs and qts somewhat higher than spec. A 45 and ~90dB for two 3FE25 in parallel might not go far dynamic-wise.

I ran a SE 6L6 into a 99dB rated coax in K15 and that was tragic. Percussion with a good 12" and K12 can use over 100 watts on a peak and not sound "loud". I do admit some of the Japanese daiko drums can be startling - partly from the way the music is timed - partly from impact with 15 and 18 inch Karlson. K15 is very adept with percussion.

TPA3116 or better would probably sound very good with those beautiful Karlsonator.

Last edited by freddi; 16th January 2021 at 07:33 PM.
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