just this side view - the vent is centered in the upper panel - the front is 27" tall by 20.5" wide. The wings are radial arc with a starting gap which in production varied from 1/4" to nearly 3/4" (might have been due to the way the wings inset into the sides.
FWIW - 115BK has a pretty smooth graph even without any damping material. It must be derived from the Karlson X15
the two inch gap at the top of the diagonal baffle goes the full 19" internal width of the cabinet.
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/9727/115bkside1sr4.jpg
here's my 115BKs - they were well made but simpler than the KK-Audio version. Ernest Beck's version of the Transylvania Power cabinet
seemed to have around a 4"x4" vent
a 3/8" diameter bolt runs through the whole cabinet to brace the wings, port panel and back. Alan Zintz indicated if the wings weren't braced
then there could be some modulation issues in the midrange
FWIW - 115BK has a pretty smooth graph even without any damping material. It must be derived from the Karlson X15
the two inch gap at the top of the diagonal baffle goes the full 19" internal width of the cabinet.
http://img490.imageshack.us/img490/9727/115bkside1sr4.jpg
here's my 115BKs - they were well made but simpler than the KK-Audio version. Ernest Beck's version of the Transylvania Power cabinet
seemed to have around a 4"x4" vent
a 3/8" diameter bolt runs through the whole cabinet to brace the wings, port panel and back. Alan Zintz indicated if the wings weren't braced
then there could be some modulation issues in the midrange
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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SigmaPro18A2 did not work too well for me in K15 size.
Would not burn wood on that project unless you gonna
go taller.
Not that it didn't "work" down to pretty low, just that
lost all the Karlson kick in the chest and magic smoke...
---
My Kramer has been restrung AEADGB 75554. Every
string moves down one, littlest string thrown out, and
one stolen from a bass added to the top. The big one
from a 7 string just wasn't thick enough to work right...
I was very fortunate the Floyd Rose on that one had
extra holes tapped to move the intonation wayy back.
I don't own one of those rare aluminum necks. Some
previous owner broke the headstock and re-glued it.
None the less, the old Kramer plays good, through the
SigmaPro18A2 K15, but was better with DeltaPro12...
Would not burn wood on that project unless you gonna
go taller.
Not that it didn't "work" down to pretty low, just that
lost all the Karlson kick in the chest and magic smoke...
---
My Kramer has been restrung AEADGB 75554. Every
string moves down one, littlest string thrown out, and
one stolen from a bass added to the top. The big one
from a 7 string just wasn't thick enough to work right...
I was very fortunate the Floyd Rose on that one had
extra holes tapped to move the intonation wayy back.
I don't own one of those rare aluminum necks. Some
previous owner broke the headstock and re-glued it.
None the less, the old Kramer plays good, through the
SigmaPro18A2 K15, but was better with DeltaPro12...
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another thing I'd like to see on a K12 is its response when the vent is plugged. I've run a DVC MCM 12"in a sealed K12 - its a nice woofer and I'll probably give it a run as a helper woofer with a pair of K8.
with the cabinet having minimal damping material as seen below, Qtc = 1.05 .
price ~$46 http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/55-1465
Poly treated paper cone
Rubber surround
Stamped steel basket
2" voice coil
42.6oz. magnet
Specifications::
Power Capacity: 100W/200W RMS/peak (per coil)
Sensitivity: 93dB (W/M)
Impedance: 8ohm (per coil)
Re: 5.8ohm (per coil)
Le: 0.59mH (per coil)
Frequency response: 25Hz~3KHz
Fs: 25Hz
Qts: 0.30
Qes: 0.32
Qms: 3.13
Vas: 203.81 (liters)
Xmax: 5.0mm
mic on the floor and about 20 inches back from the cabinet
some years ago I graphed a K12 with an Eminence woofer suitable for sealed box - here's the effect of the stock vents open
vs closed. How should one view the difference at 300Hz? (-does the rear wave fill that area in when the vent is open? - where is the best location of the vent for smoothest response?)
with the cabinet having minimal damping material as seen below, Qtc = 1.05 .
price ~$46 http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/55-1465
Poly treated paper cone
Rubber surround
Stamped steel basket
2" voice coil
42.6oz. magnet
Specifications::
Power Capacity: 100W/200W RMS/peak (per coil)
Sensitivity: 93dB (W/M)
Impedance: 8ohm (per coil)
Re: 5.8ohm (per coil)
Le: 0.59mH (per coil)
Frequency response: 25Hz~3KHz
Fs: 25Hz
Qts: 0.30
Qes: 0.32
Qms: 3.13
Vas: 203.81 (liters)
Xmax: 5.0mm
mic on the floor and about 20 inches back from the cabinet
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
some years ago I graphed a K12 with an Eminence woofer suitable for sealed box - here's the effect of the stock vents open
vs closed. How should one view the difference at 300Hz? (-does the rear wave fill that area in when the vent is open? - where is the best location of the vent for smoothest response?)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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0.53X Scale Karlsonator Build w/ Dual TC9FD's
I finally found some time to actually cut foam and build something! Here is the foam core 0.53X Karlsonator with dual Vifa TC9FD's. All I can say is WOW!!! They sound fantastic! The punch on the kick drums is really something. They are very efficient (loud) at distance away and the dispersion is really good. What I am also noticing is that there is a lot less driver cone movement compared to the other cabinets I have used. Although this is a very compact cabinet at 8 in wide x 8.5 in deep x 15 in tall - the volume of the sound is amazing. Now I know why Karlson's are special: they deliver very clean tight bass that sounds very natural and easy.
I highly recommend this build. Easy to make, inexpensive, and they sound great!
I finally found some time to actually cut foam and build something! Here is the foam core 0.53X Karlsonator with dual Vifa TC9FD's. All I can say is WOW!!! They sound fantastic! The punch on the kick drums is really something. They are very efficient (loud) at distance away and the dispersion is really good. What I am also noticing is that there is a lot less driver cone movement compared to the other cabinets I have used. Although this is a very compact cabinet at 8 in wide x 8.5 in deep x 15 in tall - the volume of the sound is amazing. Now I know why Karlson's are special: they deliver very clean tight bass that sounds very natural and easy.
I highly recommend this build. Easy to make, inexpensive, and they sound great!
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Well, another nice looking foamcore build xrk971!
Can't help it any more - need to build one of these! The driver I have in mind is the Alpair 12 Metal - specs are:
Fo= 46 Hz
Sd= 143.14 Cm
Vas= 22.8 Ltr
Cms= 0.750 MM/N
Mmd= 14.886 g
Mms= 15.871 g
BL= 8.752 T.M
Qms= 1.454
Qes= 0.420
Qts= 0.327
Levc= 0.058m H
No= 0.493 %
SPLo= 89.3 dB
Xmax= 9mm (1 way)
Pwr cont= 50 watts
Can you please give me some pointers on the box volume?
Also have a pair of woofers for which I haven't got boxes yet:
R(e)=6.1 Ohms
F(s)= 26.24 Hz
Qts=0.383
Qes:0.503
Qms-1.604
L(e)=0.471
VAS= 220 litres
Would these work in a Karlson cab as helper woofers?
Can't help it any more - need to build one of these!
The driver I have in mind is the Alpair 12 Metal - specs are:Fo= 46 Hz
Sd= 143.14 Cm
Vas= 22.8 Ltr
Cms= 0.750 MM/N
Mmd= 14.886 g
Mms= 15.871 g
BL= 8.752 T.M
Qms= 1.454
Qes= 0.420
Qts= 0.327
Levc= 0.058m H
No= 0.493 %
SPLo= 89.3 dB
Xmax= 9mm (1 way)
Pwr cont= 50 watts
Can you please give me some pointers on the box volume?
Also have a pair of woofers for which I haven't got boxes yet:
R(e)=6.1 Ohms
F(s)= 26.24 Hz
Qts=0.383
Qes:0.503
Qms-1.604
L(e)=0.471
VAS= 220 litres
Would these work in a Karlson cab as helper woofers?
Zman,
Thanks! This was a very fun box to make. For your A12 you might want to make a fullsize Karlsonator. Let me run the simulation and see how it looks. It might work in a K15 cabinet. The woofer you have, I need the Sd or diam of the cone and surround half depth to estimate Sd. The Qts value looks like it should work in a K15.
Thanks! This was a very fun box to make. For your A12 you might want to make a fullsize Karlsonator. Let me run the simulation and see how it looks. It might work in a K15 cabinet. The woofer you have, I need the Sd or diam of the cone and surround half depth to estimate Sd. The Qts value looks like it should work in a K15.
good grief - if yer gonna build a K15 then make the cutout for a 15 then use adapter boards or rings to step down to smaller drivers. The smallest driver I heard of in K15's production day was a 10" - sometimes a Hartley.
I'm wondering what might work well for the Alpair 12P - is it too mellow to balance well in a K. Would the Karlsonator 6 work? -- Karlsonator 8? GB has plans for both.
LUV that Foam build !!! - is that a brace strut for the wings which appears above the top driver?
I'm wondering what might work well for the Alpair 12P - is it too mellow to balance well in a K. Would the Karlsonator 6 work? -- Karlsonator 8? GB has plans for both.
LUV that Foam build !!! - is that a brace strut for the wings which appears above the top driver?
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That is a brace for the wings just to increase stiffness as there is a lot of pressure there. It is about 0.75 in wide piece of foamcore and should minimally affect path in opening. I am playing around with reducing amount of stuffing and room placement. It really shines when placed directly on floor - the bass enhancement is very noticeable and the angle of the drivers seems perfect if you stand 3 to 4 meters away. A great floor monitor. I love this thing, can't wait to hear it in stereo as I don't have enough drivers lying around. I can't believe how loud a couple of 3.5 inch drivers can get.
lol - I've been saying for 13 years online that Karlson's are special. I've owned a lot of stuff including direct-drive Acoustat, Maggies, Tympani 1D, Edgarhorn 100, ESS Transtatics, Klipschorns, W-bin midbass, reflexes, sealed, isobarik sealed and the Karlson's are a unique/novel and practical approach. They, like other types can sound poor if wrong driver choices are made. K15 with a good coax or woofer can do some jaw dropping feats on percussion and the cone will barely move.
K15 should have its back panel and wings braced. The shelf board makes that easy, and 3/4" diameter dowels to brace the wings work very well. The rear panel bends alot - probably due to the rear lowpass choke restriction. A single "sound post" brace from the back of the shelf to the back panel does a lot of good.
the little slotted pipe also has a lot of merit as a tweeter vs CD waveguide and others. A test-K-tube can be made from a rolled up sheet of paper and a scissor snip.
K15 should have its back panel and wings braced. The shelf board makes that easy, and 3/4" diameter dowels to brace the wings work very well. The rear panel bends alot - probably due to the rear lowpass choke restriction. A single "sound post" brace from the back of the shelf to the back panel does a lot of good.
the little slotted pipe also has a lot of merit as a tweeter vs CD waveguide and others. A test-K-tube can be made from a rolled up sheet of paper and a scissor snip.
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Well Freddi, I never would have built this if I did not simulate it first to see how it looks on paper. But sure glad I did. If there are other folks out there wondering, give this a try and you will see. The Karlsonator is not a true Karlson but a Greg B design but I played it with and without the K aperture and the aperture makes a huge difference in dispersion and bass punch.
If there are other folks out there wondering, give this a try and you will see. The Karlsonator is not a true Karlson but a Greg B design but I played it with and without the K aperture and the aperture makes a huge difference in dispersion and bass punch.
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how should we define a "true Karlson" to separate it from hybrid? - is a true Karlson setup more like a horn with regards to its back chamber sizing?
GregB has been a great help and friend to the Karlson for many years. I have a rough prototype of his Karlsonator 6 and hear a lot of good things with regards to dispersion and useful bass - it goes deep and yet the cone excursion is a lot less than I expected. With a de-whizzered 164, its sitting up high off the floor and bass is "deep" - I've got to shell out the money to get a 166en for it and try to find someone who does better carpentry than myself to build a pair of Karlsonators (not sure which size yet)
GregB has been a great help and friend to the Karlson for many years. I have a rough prototype of his Karlsonator 6 and hear a lot of good things with regards to dispersion and useful bass - it goes deep and yet the cone excursion is a lot less than I expected. With a de-whizzered 164, its sitting up high off the floor and bass is "deep" - I've got to shell out the money to get a 166en for it and try to find someone who does better carpentry than myself to build a pair of Karlsonators (not sure which size yet)
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Karlsonator 0.6X Scale with Alpair 12 metal cone
Here are the simulation results with the A12 metal cone. It looks like it can work and be a pretty small cabinet. I scaled it at 9/15 or 0.6X.
First plot is freq response at 1m, second plot is impedance, third is cone displacement, fourth is freq response at 3 m away. Last plot is the A12 in a 12/15 scale K15 cabinet - I don't think this is the right driver as there is a big bass overshoot peak.
Well, another nice looking foamcore build xrk971!
Can't help it any more - need to build one of these!
Fo= 46 Hz
Sd= 143.14 Cm
Vas= 22.8 Ltr
Cms= 0.750 MM/N
Mmd= 14.886 g
Mms= 15.871 g
BL= 8.752 T.M
Qms= 1.454
Qes= 0.420
Qts= 0.327
Levc= 0.058m H
No= 0.493 %
SPLo= 89.3 dB
Xmax= 9mm (1 way)
Pwr cont= 50 watts
Can you please give me some pointers on the box volume?
Also have a pair of woofers for which I haven't got boxes yet:
R(e)=6.1 Ohms
F(s)= 26.24 Hz
Qts=0.383
Qes:0.503
Qms-1.604
L(e)=0.471
VAS= 220 litres
Would these work in a Karlson cab as helper woofers?
Here are the simulation results with the A12 metal cone. It looks like it can work and be a pretty small cabinet. I scaled it at 9/15 or 0.6X.
First plot is freq response at 1m, second plot is impedance, third is cone displacement, fourth is freq response at 3 m away. Last plot is the A12 in a 12/15 scale K15 cabinet - I don't think this is the right driver as there is a big bass overshoot peak.
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For me, a true Karlson is one that resembles the 1950's design with chambers connected by shelves and a vent between the front and back chambers. The hybrids are either TL's or horns with Karlson apertures on the mouth/terminus. The true Karlsons cannot be scaled very successfully beyond 12/15. Any smaller and the performance just collapses, whereas the TL Karlsonator, as I have shown in sims, scales quite well. And I have just demonstrated to myself in foam core that it sounds fantastic. Greg B has a great design here. You should give the foam core a try Freddi - you will be surprised how easy and fast it is to make and how good it can sound. It needs a lot of bracing strategically placed to work as this design has a lot of pressure on the walls.
Karlson deleted the front shelf in all his small designs (K8/K12 and X15) from 1954 onwards. The rear shelf was split into two boards in the ~1956 K12 then the full width rear shelf reappeared in one 1960's K12 model.
I have zero mobility so would have to order foam board - its easier to get plywood
I have zero mobility so would have to order foam board - its easier to get plywood
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regarding scaled K - the little cabinet for 10 inch speaker on the left, currently loaded with an Eminence Delta 10A represents something which has a pretty good amount of punch. A K-tube made of slotted pvc. metal, or paper makes a great and natural sounding waveguide. That's an early Karlson K15 on the right.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Too funny. Great job, and I'm glad they turned out so well!
RE scaling, yeah, I pretty much agree with you. The problem is nobody has figured out how to make a shorter bass wave.
Keep in mind that originally the 'K15' or Ultra Fidelity was the standard enclosure, and the K12 was the compact one. The small scaled standard enclosures may be nice for certain uses if one understands their limitations.
That's some great work you've done with these Akabak sims. At some point, however, it is nice to see it tested with actual builds, as a sim is only a sim. Reality can be more complex.
listed as a 1955 Karlson ad sheet - "The Incredible Karlson 8"
http://www.hifilit.com/Karlson/1955-2.jpg
the K-forum's "SK8" is about the smallest stand-alone regular K-type and my lone SK8 sounds good with W8-1772, AN8 and FE206EN. GB's Karlsonator 6 goes lower.
http://www.hifilit.com/Karlson/1955-2.jpg
the K-forum's "SK8" is about the smallest stand-alone regular K-type and my lone SK8 sounds good with W8-1772, AN8 and FE206EN. GB's Karlsonator 6 goes lower.
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