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Hi-Fi Full Range speakers playing complex music
Hi-Fi Full Range speakers playing complex music
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Old 25th April 2013, 03:25 PM   #61
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Hi-Fi Full Range speakers playing complex music
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiosmuck View Post
Perhaps your 50Hz from an 4 inch speaker is all in your mind?
Missing fundamental - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This could also explain why I get headaches listening to small speakers, my little old brain gets overloaded?
I am aware of psychoacoustics that fools the brain to thinking that the bass is lower than it is - which is why what I am claiming is based on measurements.

Not sure why you continue to discount the possibility of a 4 in driver actually making 50 Hz. I have measurements using Holmimpulse and a Panasonic WM61A mic on several of my desgns (a BLH and a MLTL) and others have also measured down to 50 Hz using my design. These are actually 3.5 inch drivers and the bass is certainly not in the same league as a real woofer but can definitely be heard and is plenty loud for the type of music and listening environment that I have.

See example of measurement by Jim Shearer on one of my designs here:
FH3-inspired Foam Core Mini Build

Here is the output from the bass port of a 30 in long folded MLTL with a 3.5 in driver. It's all about the enclosure as there is no way you can get this otherwise.
Click the image to open in full size.

Here is the output from the bass port of a 40 in long MLTL with a 3.5 in driver.
Click the image to open in full size.

Last edited by xrk971; 25th April 2013 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 25th April 2013, 04:05 PM   #62
fastbike1 is offline fastbike1  United States
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60 responses and this thread is that same as all threads like this:

Some people telling other people that they (the other people) can't possibly like their speakers.

No different than different musical styles, tubes, sold state, vinyl beer, wine, cars, etc.

I always marvel at the tired old debate. Particularly since each side is determined to defend their perspective when it really shouldn't matter.

Each person likes what they like for their own reasons. Who cares what some stranger thinks about your system in your room?

Children on the playground.
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Old 25th April 2013, 04:24 PM   #63
murphythecat8 is offline murphythecat8  Canada
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ts all really weird for me to talk about square wave being better rendred on a fullrange and that is the proof the a fullrange is more musical whatever ********.
Its also weird that musicality is directly related to a wave form. A good speaker, multi way of fullrange is suppose to play what you put in it. Musicality comes from the source no? a good speaker should be transparent.

My only message is try for yourself. Anyone who think is satisfied with their Full range, but have never heard a multiway, build both, then you can decide for yourself.

Last edited by murphythecat8; 25th April 2013 at 04:29 PM.
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Old 25th April 2013, 04:35 PM   #64
xrk971 is offline xrk971  United States
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Hi-Fi Full Range speakers playing complex music
Maybe that's why we have separate forums for full range and multi-way speakers? They are both good at what they are designed for. I agree that one side trying to convince the other is pointless. But discussing, debating, and arguing can sometimes lead to new ideas... If people like to debate that is their choice and that is what an open forum is meant for. If one doesn't like to hear children on a playground arguing, don't go onto the playground.
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Old 25th April 2013, 04:37 PM   #65
Jim Shearer is offline Jim Shearer  United States
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murphythecat,

You just don't get it , do you? Not everyone is looking for what you value.

OK, use your car example. Compare my wife's RAV-4 Toyota to a Ferrari.

So I go down to Curtis Lumber in preparation for a speaker build. Decide to take the Ferrari. What a piece of crap! No way to get those sheets of plywood home!

Later, I go down to the track. Decide to take the RAV-4. What a piece of crap! Handling is just pitiful, and it can't even make 150 mph!

Can you see what's going on here?

Some people are very good at spending other people's money...

Cheers, Jim
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Old 25th April 2013, 04:37 PM   #66
cogitech is offline cogitech  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat8 View Post
ts all really weird for me to talk about square wave being better rendred on a fullrange and that is the proof the a fullrange is more musical whatever ********.
Its also weird that musicality is directly related to a wave form. A good speaker, multi way of fullrange is suppose to play what you put in it. Musicality comes from the source no? a good speaker should be transparent.

My only message is try for yourself. Anyone who think is satisfied with their Full range, but have never heard a multiway, build both, then you can decide for yourself.
XRK posts frequency response graphs and you somehow interpret them as waveforms? What are they putting in the water in Quebec?
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Old 25th April 2013, 04:54 PM   #67
chrisb is online now chrisb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murphythecat8 View Post
in the upper box you see on my avatar.

small enough photo to not be able to detect actual size of the enclosure you're running the 12s in - have you described / posted larger photos elsewhere?

since I've heard the A12P in 2 quite different enclosures ( MarKen and SuperPensil) I can attest that it's a driver that delivers more than adequate bass for me (& Jeff too, I think) in a larger enclosure - but as Jim alludes, you may be looking for something other - perhaps ineffable?
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Last edited by chrisb; 25th April 2013 at 04:59 PM.
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Old 25th April 2013, 05:03 PM   #68
murphythecat8 is offline murphythecat8  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cogitech View Post
XRK posts frequency response graphs and you somehow interpret them as waveforms? What are they putting in the water in Quebec?
whow. you should relax a bit here I was refering to Kevin Warne post where he talks about wave form.
XRK post was easy to understand.

Jim:
ok I dont get it. what do I value here that you dont?
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Old 25th April 2013, 05:07 PM   #69
murphythecat8 is offline murphythecat8  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
small enough photo to not be able to detect actual size of the enclosure you're running the 12s in - have you described / posted larger photos elsewhere?

since I've heard the A12P in 2 quite different enclosures ( MarKen and SuperPensil) I can attest that it's a driver that delivers more than adequate bass for me (& Jeff too, I think) in a larger enclosure - but as Jim alludes, you may be looking for something other - perhaps ineffable?
Yes, maybe my box is not the optimal perfect box ever for the 12p, still, no comparison compared to a true woofer. the box is around 30L. but I dont care really and I am sorry to have offended people. if you think you have enough bass, great really. I am not saying your wrong. simply that I was not satisfied. end of stroy. I'll move on.
My only message to anyone is build both, a multi and a fullrange, and then decide for your self. thats it.

Last edited by murphythecat8; 25th April 2013 at 05:11 PM.
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Old 25th April 2013, 08:10 PM   #70
vinylkid58 is offline vinylkid58  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisb View Post
since I've heard the A12P in 2 quite different enclosures ( MarKen and SuperPensil) I can attest that it's a driver that delivers more than adequate bass for me (& Jeff too, I think) in a larger enclosure
Yes. I no longer require rock concert (The Who) levels, but do enjoy room filling bass without reaching said levels. Something many of the smaller drivers struggle to do without being pushed. Maybe it's an age thing.

jeff
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