>>> New cabs will be 5cft vent at the bottom and look like this (hopefully) - all approved by management...
You should be in good shape! I remember the curves looked very good for 5cf. I think downfiring the port will work to your advangage too.
Someone built a neat looking backhorn about that size... I will see if i can find a link to it.
You should be in good shape! I remember the curves looked very good for 5cf. I think downfiring the port will work to your advangage too.
Someone built a neat looking backhorn about that size... I will see if i can find a link to it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/179161-beta-12lta-3cf-box-port-size-3.html
Scroll to the bottom to see the pic.
Scroll to the bottom to see the pic.
ARRRGH FOR THE LOVE OF......
...Mrs JRKO
I played her the 12LTA'a in their present cabs and she said she didn't like the sound. She said it's like any instrument that plays below a certain note doesn't exist any more.
So I turn the subs on and she says nonchalantly whilst reading a book 'thats better, make it sound like that' - I swear she didn't even raise her head!!!!
...Mrs JRKO
I played her the 12LTA'a in their present cabs and she said she didn't like the sound. She said it's like any instrument that plays below a certain note doesn't exist any more.
So I turn the subs on and she says nonchalantly whilst reading a book 'thats better, make it sound like that' - I swear she didn't even raise her head!!!!
The only problem with that backhorn is that it only extends to 50 or 60hz as I recall. I'll bet it sounds great, but perhaps not the best solution for deep bass. What about some MLTLs that were simulated some time ago? They were hefty, but extension was good.
Just an FYI, having listened to the 12lta in ob for a few days and having some very extended listening sessions i'd say they sound very good but certainly not better or worse than sealed, ported, blh, etc. They excel at micro detail and instruments/vocals float in space better than the other designs imo but then there are the trade offs. I think the overall presentation is a little bland on some material. The speakers are more dependent on the quality of the recording and there's less of a richness sometimes. Tho things can seem exactly correct. I will keep them for a while and enjoy them but as with everything else, different designs have different strengths and weaknesses. They are very good if you like that floaty, airy sound and enjoy fingers on guitar detail.
Zilla
Zilla
Thanks for the update Zilla. I've been very interested in your open baffle experiment. It seems to me, at this point, for the only way for you to go now is Audio nirvana 12" or 15". 
I have some questions: where are you crossing between the LTAs and the H-frames? And how does open baffle affect things like drums? Is the H-frame more important for achieving that non-boxy sound?
I've definitely got my eye on the 12LTA, but I think my longer-term dream is maybe the audio Nirvana 10" on an OB. My reasoning is that it has a better BL to Mms ratio, which as I understand should result in more speed and dynamics. But then again, what do I know?
(or maybe AN sealed with H-frame sub!!)
I have some questions: where are you crossing between the LTAs and the H-frames? And how does open baffle affect things like drums? Is the H-frame more important for achieving that non-boxy sound? I've definitely got my eye on the 12LTA, but I think my longer-term dream is maybe the audio Nirvana 10" on an OB. My reasoning is that it has a better BL to Mms ratio, which as I understand should result in more speed and dynamics. But then again, what do I know?
(or maybe AN sealed with H-frame sub!!)
I think Zilla is doing the same as me and running the 12LTA 'full range' and bringing in other 'helper' drivers where necessary [/QUOTE]
I'd buy the 12LTA's to make sure you like the large driver fullrange sound. Enjoy them and if yours ears demand it, upgrade. I've come from 15inch Tannoy DC's and can say the 12LTA's comfortably outshine them (albeit with help top & bottom)I've definitely got my eye on the 12LTA, but I think my longer-term dream is maybe the audio Nirvana 10" on an OB. My reasoning is that it has a better BL to Mms ratio, which as I understand should result in more speed and dynamics. But then again, what do I know?
The cabinet is about 4 cubic feet. Drivers wired parallel, my amp is designed for 4ohm load...Right now both drivers run full range. With both drivers facing forward, running full range, I needed a baffle step circuit. Not so with one driver facing backwards. I was hoping to get away with no extra woofer, but that didn't work out so far. All of my opinions on the sound are objective. As it stands now the system plays quite loud with only 2 watts driving the 12LTAs. Compared to my ariels, which are my benchmark, the sound is much bigger. Great if you walking around the house, or yard, listening, but not quite as refined if you sit in the sweet spot to listen. Maybe some fine tuning...impedance compensation etc. will help.
Sorry if the picture quality is poor. I used my iPhone to take the photo... and at my new job i have two monitors. On one the photo looks good. On the other it looks bad.
I simply made an easel with two pieces of mdf hinged at the top. The baffle is 24" tall by 19" wide. Then i doubled up the front with pine. I cut out the back baffle leaving about a three inch boarder all the way around. I intend to stain the whole thing a reddish brown but for now decided to leave unfinished in order to enjoy listening to music. These replaced essentially the same speaker that was in a sealed 2.25 cf box.
I need to spend more time listening to them so i can appreciate what they are capable of. They certainly sound different then when they were in the sealed boxes... i really enjoyed them in sealed boxes actually and would recommend this to anyone looking for an efficient speaker as long as they were willing to add bass (and treble) support. The 12lta is really a wide range midrange that needs its dustcap cut out in order to enjoy in a home setup. Adding a phase plug further smooths the response (both visually and sonically) resulting in a very dynamic, listenable and enjoyable speaker!
Having enjoyed the 12lta for sevearal months i can vouch for their performance and prefer it to other speakers i have on hand including the Fostex 168s (older style with whizzer), Fostex 165k in BIBs and various TBs including the 1808... since the 1808 went up in price to over $300 each i may give them another listen to see if they sound better, lol.
The 12lta's are sitting on top of H-frames with eminence Alpha 15s. The tweeter is the eminence 1001... the whole thing gels and sounds terrific! I realize now i have an 'all eminence' system.
Not the last word in performance but extrememly enjoyable! Amazing how much sound is produced... and the open baffle setup really images nicely.
I can't wait to listen to music over the weekend!
Zilla
I simply made an easel with two pieces of mdf hinged at the top. The baffle is 24" tall by 19" wide. Then i doubled up the front with pine. I cut out the back baffle leaving about a three inch boarder all the way around. I intend to stain the whole thing a reddish brown but for now decided to leave unfinished in order to enjoy listening to music. These replaced essentially the same speaker that was in a sealed 2.25 cf box.
I need to spend more time listening to them so i can appreciate what they are capable of. They certainly sound different then when they were in the sealed boxes... i really enjoyed them in sealed boxes actually and would recommend this to anyone looking for an efficient speaker as long as they were willing to add bass (and treble) support. The 12lta is really a wide range midrange that needs its dustcap cut out in order to enjoy in a home setup. Adding a phase plug further smooths the response (both visually and sonically) resulting in a very dynamic, listenable and enjoyable speaker!
Having enjoyed the 12lta for sevearal months i can vouch for their performance and prefer it to other speakers i have on hand including the Fostex 168s (older style with whizzer), Fostex 165k in BIBs and various TBs including the 1808... since the 1808 went up in price to over $300 each i may give them another listen to see if they sound better, lol.
The 12lta's are sitting on top of H-frames with eminence Alpha 15s. The tweeter is the eminence 1001... the whole thing gels and sounds terrific! I realize now i have an 'all eminence' system.
Not the last word in performance but extrememly enjoyable! Amazing how much sound is produced... and the open baffle setup really images nicely.
I can't wait to listen to music over the weekend!
Zilla
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Zilla,
That looks awesome. The small volume of house taken up must please the significant other.
Where do you cross to the woofer?
I don't know if mine are a fair comparison, but I'm finding the Hframe woofer to be very musical, with plenty of snap. I had to listen long and hard to find any of my music that they didn't do better then the same woofer in a ported or sealed box. On some electronic stuff they don't quite have the house rumbling bottom end, but 99% of the time they do fine. You might as well try them. They are simple to build and use little wood.
Happy listening, Evan
That looks awesome. The small volume of house taken up must please the significant other.
Where do you cross to the woofer?
I don't know if mine are a fair comparison, but I'm finding the Hframe woofer to be very musical, with plenty of snap. I had to listen long and hard to find any of my music that they didn't do better then the same woofer in a ported or sealed box. On some electronic stuff they don't quite have the house rumbling bottom end, but 99% of the time they do fine. You might as well try them. They are simple to build and use little wood.
Happy listening, Evan
Attachments
>>> It seems to me, at this point, for the only way for you to go now is Audio nirvana 12" or 15"...
Chaz, yes the larger AN drivers are tempting! I'd try them in a heartbeat. Maybe they are better than the 12lta? I'd also like to try the Hawthorn Audio stuff but have read a lot about how the tweeter integration sounds annoying... and we are full range driver fans trying to avoid that.
According to the dial on the sub amp it looks like the H-frames are crossed around 80Hz. Remember, the H-frame response rises so having the dials on the sub amp are IMO extremely useful for blending the sound with the mains just right.
JRKO, honestly, i've never had large ported boxes with 15" woofers pumping away to be able to compare. The H-frames are musical and always please but i'd imagine they offer similar placement challenges. They need space around them. Sealed/ported may like wall reinforcement. As suggested, you may need to build a pair LOL.
Evan, those H-frames look really great!
I'm enjoying my morning listening to music now.
Chaz, yes the larger AN drivers are tempting! I'd try them in a heartbeat. Maybe they are better than the 12lta? I'd also like to try the Hawthorn Audio stuff but have read a lot about how the tweeter integration sounds annoying... and we are full range driver fans trying to avoid that.
According to the dial on the sub amp it looks like the H-frames are crossed around 80Hz. Remember, the H-frame response rises so having the dials on the sub amp are IMO extremely useful for blending the sound with the mains just right.
JRKO, honestly, i've never had large ported boxes with 15" woofers pumping away to be able to compare. The H-frames are musical and always please but i'd imagine they offer similar placement challenges. They need space around them. Sealed/ported may like wall reinforcement. As suggested, you may need to build a pair LOL.
Evan, those H-frames look really great!
I'm enjoying my morning listening to music now.
I'll look into the H frames. Is there any reading on the design of them?
As for the AN drivers - I've searched the forums and found that most of them, especially the larger ones, have a real issue of meeting or even resembling their published T/S specs. But on the other hand, those that have 'em , love 'em
As for the AN drivers - I've searched the forums and found that most of them, especially the larger ones, have a real issue of meeting or even resembling their published T/S specs. But on the other hand, those that have 'em , love 'em
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