I am looking to build a line Array and am considering full range drivers.
Can anyone compare the HiVi B3N 3" vs. the HiVi M4N 4". Because they will be used in a line array (12 3" vs. 10 4"), I am looking for comparisons of sound quality. The 4" looks to have VERY good base response, but I see more people using the 3" in line arrays.
If the 4" compares closely to the 3" I'm inclined to use it instead of the 3", (although if I go 3" I'm considering the Aurasound 3" as well)
Looking for comparisons. Or if anyone has used the HiVi 4" in a line array, what were the reasons for your choice and how did it work out?
Thanks
Can anyone compare the HiVi B3N 3" vs. the HiVi M4N 4". Because they will be used in a line array (12 3" vs. 10 4"), I am looking for comparisons of sound quality. The 4" looks to have VERY good base response, but I see more people using the 3" in line arrays.
If the 4" compares closely to the 3" I'm inclined to use it instead of the 3", (although if I go 3" I'm considering the Aurasound 3" as well)
Looking for comparisons. Or if anyone has used the HiVi 4" in a line array, what were the reasons for your choice and how did it work out?
Thanks
I should add that I know one reason some might choose the 3" over the 4" is the Xover frequency can be higher. I was planning to Xover at 3k. The HiVi 4" could be to large to Xover at this frequency in order to avoid combing, but that is something I can test (nice to have a variable active crossover). I don't really want to Xover lower than 2.7k due to my ribbon tweeter range and personality.
Anyway, looking for other reasons to choose 4" over 3" or 3" over 4".
Anyway, looking for other reasons to choose 4" over 3" or 3" over 4".
ok..........I can tell you how my 2 arrays compare.
I have a couple of Rick Craig designs, just so happens that one uses the 3" Hi-Vi......32 per side with 8 founteks ribbons, and the other uses 12x 4" Hi-Vi per side and 8 Dayton planers.
Wow.....you must be thinking how lucky can you be finding a guy with both!!
Well......heres the problem, I can tell you how they sound.....but I'm a X-over
dummy...couldnt tell you where they cross or how theyre put together....I leave that to those that design, I just build and listen.
If you like I can give you my impressions on both.....for x-over info you would
have to talk to Rick at Selah.
The one with the 32x 3" is called the Symmetrica.....
The one with the 12x 4" is called the 128.
Just say the word, and if you like......I'll give you my thoughts.
I have a couple of Rick Craig designs, just so happens that one uses the 3" Hi-Vi......32 per side with 8 founteks ribbons, and the other uses 12x 4" Hi-Vi per side and 8 Dayton planers.
Wow.....you must be thinking how lucky can you be finding a guy with both!!
Well......heres the problem, I can tell you how they sound.....but I'm a X-over
dummy...couldnt tell you where they cross or how theyre put together....I leave that to those that design, I just build and listen.
If you like I can give you my impressions on both.....for x-over info you would
have to talk to Rick at Selah.
The one with the 32x 3" is called the Symmetrica.....
The one with the 12x 4" is called the 128.
Just say the word, and if you like......I'll give you my thoughts.
Yes!
You are perfect for this. I see the Symmetricas, but couldn't find the 128s.
I take it these are passivley X'd over. Having an active variable crossover allows me to play with the Xover location and the gain on each section of the line array. I don't know how much Rick would be willing to reveal since he sells? the design. Using passive is so much more tricky than active, so the final Xover points could be different anyway. But given that he's worked with both he'd have a lot of insight into how the drivers respond to various freq ranges.
That aside, how do you compare the two (especially the midrange)? What are your thoughts on the sound quality. Are you able to distinguish the HiVi drivers from the ribbons enough? BTW, I am planning on the very same Dayton ribbons.
Awaiting your impressions.
You are perfect for this. I see the Symmetricas, but couldn't find the 128s.
I take it these are passivley X'd over. Having an active variable crossover allows me to play with the Xover location and the gain on each section of the line array. I don't know how much Rick would be willing to reveal since he sells? the design. Using passive is so much more tricky than active, so the final Xover points could be different anyway. But given that he's worked with both he'd have a lot of insight into how the drivers respond to various freq ranges.
That aside, how do you compare the two (especially the midrange)? What are your thoughts on the sound quality. Are you able to distinguish the HiVi drivers from the ribbons enough? BTW, I am planning on the very same Dayton ribbons.
Awaiting your impressions.
well then here goes.....
The symmetricas were my first DIY build....theres been a few since.
I liked them so much i asked Rick to design a couple of rears for my HT...
the 128s were what he came up with. These were very much budget minded.
The one thing about the Syms that totally out shine any speaker I have heard or owned is the way they image. This is what Rick said about them also. Arrays are known for their imaging and soundstage but these are just incredible. The 128s are good at this also, but not as good as the Syms.
They integrate well with the Ribbons planers on both sets, the fountek ribbons are clearer than the daytons, mid range are comparable on both with a edge to the Syms in the way sound more realistic playing brass and strings.
I use these arrays on my HT set up, they are amazing in this application. I have sinced moved on for my 2 ch listening, but for the $ spent these are well worth the time to build. The Syms are definately the better of the two, but that would be due to the founteks and the bit of magic that is this array.
If you have the $ to spend I would go with the 3"...but with more drivers to get that imaging....its to die for. I currently have a pair of Gr V-1s as reference.......these are some of the best I have ever heard.....but they dont image like the Syms.
Hope this helps a bit....
The symmetricas were my first DIY build....theres been a few since.
I liked them so much i asked Rick to design a couple of rears for my HT...
the 128s were what he came up with. These were very much budget minded.
The one thing about the Syms that totally out shine any speaker I have heard or owned is the way they image. This is what Rick said about them also. Arrays are known for their imaging and soundstage but these are just incredible. The 128s are good at this also, but not as good as the Syms.
They integrate well with the Ribbons planers on both sets, the fountek ribbons are clearer than the daytons, mid range are comparable on both with a edge to the Syms in the way sound more realistic playing brass and strings.
I use these arrays on my HT set up, they are amazing in this application. I have sinced moved on for my 2 ch listening, but for the $ spent these are well worth the time to build. The Syms are definately the better of the two, but that would be due to the founteks and the bit of magic that is this array.
If you have the $ to spend I would go with the 3"...but with more drivers to get that imaging....its to die for. I currently have a pair of Gr V-1s as reference.......these are some of the best I have ever heard.....but they dont image like the Syms.
Hope this helps a bit....
Thanks for the info. Unfortunately I won't be able to spend on the Founteks and all those B3N's. However, I'm pleased that you like both of these. It gives me some confidence that I'm pursuing a good design.
Have you ever listened to the 128s as a main pair? They may not be the syms, but are they good enough to be used as a main set of speakers?
What about the bass response of the syms and the 128s?
Thanks for this.
Have you ever listened to the 128s as a main pair? They may not be the syms, but are they good enough to be used as a main set of speakers?
What about the bass response of the syms and the 128s?
Thanks for this.
The 128s are fine as main pair.....I am a bit spoiled, my reference are outstanding, these are close.
your gonna need subs.....mine cross at about 120.
I have a couple of duo 12" daytons Rick designed for me.....the servos on the V-1s are just the ticket, but the duels do fine.
For the $ you are gonna spend.....just go for it, youll be hard pressed to find better.
your gonna need subs.....mine cross at about 120.
I have a couple of duo 12" daytons Rick designed for me.....the servos on the V-1s are just the ticket, but the duels do fine.
For the $ you are gonna spend.....just go for it, youll be hard pressed to find better.
Thanks for all the info.
I have an IB bassbox in the floor that crosses at 80 (although I can adjust that too). Crossing at 120 might be a bit high for localizing the bass, but I can mess around with it. This is why I was interested in the bass of the HiVi's. The info on the M4N's shows them responsive down to 80. I know that is an 'ideal' reading and not 'in-my-room' reading, but if I can get close, I'll be set.
Given that you are happy with the M4N's, I'll make a similar set of speakers to your 128's. Do you know the upper Xover point (gives me a place to start with). If not, I'll start at 3k and play up and down from there.
Again, thanks for the help.
I have an IB bassbox in the floor that crosses at 80 (although I can adjust that too). Crossing at 120 might be a bit high for localizing the bass, but I can mess around with it. This is why I was interested in the bass of the HiVi's. The info on the M4N's shows them responsive down to 80. I know that is an 'ideal' reading and not 'in-my-room' reading, but if I can get close, I'll be set.
Given that you are happy with the M4N's, I'll make a similar set of speakers to your 128's. Do you know the upper Xover point (gives me a place to start with). If not, I'll start at 3k and play up and down from there.
Again, thanks for the help.
Should of stated that my array uses the B4N......and sorry I dont know the cross over point to the planers.
Pictures......my fav passtime.
I dont have pics of the 128 on this puter.....will take a couple and post them a little later. I do have some of the Syms....here you go.
I built 2 duo Dayton 12" subs......another of Ricks.....one for each array.
These are my reference.....GR Research V-1s.......this is a temporary set up till my room is done....then they will all have a proper home....sometime this December.
Pictures......my fav passtime.
I dont have pics of the 128 on this puter.....will take a couple and post them a little later. I do have some of the Syms....here you go.
I built 2 duo Dayton 12" subs......another of Ricks.....one for each array.
These are my reference.....GR Research V-1s.......this is a temporary set up till my room is done....then they will all have a proper home....sometime this December.
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