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-   -   Frugel-Horn Mk3 (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3.html)

planet10 18th December 2012 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassordrums (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-post3290403.html#post3290403)
Is the 108 in the Frugel able to put out about the same amount of SPL as the Fostex recommended, before distortion, or does the 108 reach its limits significantly earlier than in the Fostex recommended ?

I can't speak to that. But i can say the FH3 sounds better. In the end our Fostex recommended horn was determined to be a waste of plywood and was burned.

dave

Scottmoose 18th December 2012 07:58 PM

Should be much of a muchness WRT outright excursion; the Fostex 108 box isn't much to shout about on that front itself.

The fact is, from a technical POV, unless the 108 is high passed, it's distorting badly whatever you do with it. Since you seem to be happy with what you have, I'd probably stick with it and spend the money you save on enclosure materials for more music.

bassordrums 18th December 2012 08:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by planet10 (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-post3290440.html#post3290440)
I can't speak to that. But i can say the FH3 sounds better. In the end our Fostex recommended horn was determined to be a waste of plywood and was burned.

dave

ok thats possible, I actually never tried the 108EZ in there, whats in there now is a 108ESII.
but in the Swan with corrected chamber, the 108EZ worked very well and sounds good.

bassordrums 21st December 2012 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottmoose (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-post3290056.html#post3290056)
Ok, let's do a little error-correcting now, before things get out of hand. The main FH3 thread contains almost all the information you ask about, but it's spread over a wide number of posts. So.

Not true. That might be what you define as a back horn, but the physics are another matter. A back-horn does not automatically have to possess a low-pass filter chamber. End of story. The throat area is part of the horn (FH3 which is a tapped hypex corner horn has an St = 0, i.e. its throat has almost no physical area, although compression effects mean acoustically it has a small amount), and total efficiency is determined by the expansion profile.

FH3 has no connection to the Replikon. Like most back horns with a chamber, the Replikon is essentially a bass reflex box with a large vent. It's simply a matter of degree. FH3 takes exactly the opposite approach: it has no chamber of any kind, just the horn itself. There is a small choke in the horn expansion near the base; this has no effect on F3, it is merely there to provide a sharper upper corner frequency.

The FE108ESigma has the grand total of 0.28mm of linear travel before reaching advertised Xmax (definition of latter unspecified -there are quite a few), so if you're concerned about remaining within this, then you'll need to forget any attempt to extract LF from it and high pass 2nd order at about 500Hz. There is no enclosure, not even a full-sized horn, which will keep it within 0.28mm deflection while getting < 100Hz out of it.


I simulated it in Akabak, not exactly easy to connect the nodes right for a FH3 script, no wonder I do not have practice anymore =)

I see that the excursion is a bigger and the frequency graph is less peaky, indicating a smoother sound, but its some less loud too =)

Excursion, impedance and frequency plot do look like a horn, all tough its really squeezed to flat, could be that it sounds more compressed.
Nice design well made, thinking about making a pair and see what my ESII can do there.

thanks again for the help :)

tlarwa 4th January 2013 12:42 AM

Best location for bass traps with the FH3?
 
Since its a corner-loaded horn (mine use the MA CHP-70eN drivers) what is the recommended placement of bass traps in the room? I assume it's NOT the front wall corners behind the speakers. Would it be on the back wall (behind the listening position) or somewhere along the side walls? I'm trying to tighten up the bass a bit.

Tom

chrisb 4th January 2013 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tlarwa (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-post3310142.html#post3310142)
Since its a corner-loaded horn (mine use the MA CHP-70eN drivers) what is the recommended placement of bass traps in the room? I assume it's NOT the front wall corners behind the speakers. Would it be on the back wall (behind the listening position) or somewhere along the side walls? I'm trying to tighten up the bass a bit.

Tom



Mark's drivers already have a fair degree of BSC contour engineered into their frequency response and certainly don't need the corner loading as do drivers such as the FE126 .

Two things you might want to consider

- experimenting with levels of fill fiber within the enclosure
- pulling the enclosures further out from the apex of the corners

Scottmoose 4th January 2013 10:38 AM

Bass traps? I wouldn't have thought you'd need them, since while FH3 isn't bad in the LF for a small horn, it's not exactly got the LF heft of a couple of 15in HE Altecs.

Before you start thinking bass traps, have you tried adding more damping to the enclosure? If not, add some below the driver, or a nice big handful stuffed into the bottom of the box through the choke.

WRT bass trap placement, there's no short answer unfortunately; it depends on the room acoustics & modes as to where they're most effective, assuming you're even able to place them where they're most effective. Bass traps are big.

Scottmoose 4th January 2013 10:41 AM

On a different subject, I can't recall if anyone's tried the Tang Band W4-1320SJF or w4-1320SIF in FH3 yet: if not and anybody's wondering about these bamboo cone jobs, the answer is yes: they will work.

tlarwa 6th January 2013 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottmoose (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-post3310591.html#post3310591)
Bass traps? I wouldn't have thought you'd need them, since while FH3 isn't bad in the LF for a small horn, it's not exactly got the LF heft of a couple of 15in HE Altecs.

Before you start thinking bass traps, have you tried adding more damping to the enclosure? If not, add some below the driver, or a nice big handful stuffed into the bottom of the box through the choke.

WRT bass trap placement, there's no short answer unfortunately; it depends on the room acoustics & modes as to where they're most effective, assuming you're even able to place them where they're most effective. Bass traps are big.

I've got the speakers pulled out 21" from the front wall and 12" from the side walls. These dims correspond to the 1/9th and 1/11th rule. I could pull them out even further, but they will start coming into the room pretty far if I do. I have stuffing below the driver now, but maybe I'll try some additional fill stuffed in through the choke (the tops are glued on now) and see what that does to tighten them up. Thanks.

xrk971 6th January 2013 04:28 PM

FH3 build in foam core
 
3 Attachment(s)
For anyone wishing to try the FH3 quickly and cheap in a slightly smaller format, I just built a 30 in tall one in an evening and morning using paper faced foam core boards from the dollar store and the Vifa TC9FD 3.5 inch driver with pretty good results. More info in this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-...sures-102.html


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