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-   -   Frugel-Horn Mk3 (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3.html)

chris661 4th March 2011 08:24 AM

A minor point here.

With a pair of drivers, both seeing 1w, with a starting efficiency of 93dB per side, you'll get 99dB from the system, both channels driven to a watt.
Next up, I give you exhibit A...
ESP - The Linkwitz Transform Circuit
So the speakers will be moving much less than otherwise thought. Sure, if you ran some sweeps, they'd move a lot, but with much of the bass energy in music ~12dB down, that's a lot of excursion saved.

Chris

PS - Dave, those excursion charts backed up what we heard of Colin's FH3s - they don't go all the way down, but go far enough for it to be difficult to tell they don't. Until they were pitted against much larger (12" co-ax, ~80L tuned <40Hz), you wouldn't've known anything was missing.

jemraid 4th March 2011 08:51 AM

Hi all,

I went round to Colin's [Toppsy] yesterday and listened to his FH3's with the Mark Audio CHR70 drivers. I expected that they would sound better than my Needles, what I didn't expect was by how much.

No point in breaking into flowery prose about them I'll just say that I'm going to make a pair.

Thanks Colin - Jim

DaveCan 4th March 2011 09:07 AM

I've never really gotten all this fuss over loudness capabilities etc.. I've been using the fe108ez in bib cabs unfiltered for years now.. I listen to everything pretty much, and they can still get loud while being less efficient than the 126.. In the long term I think enjoying ones music and passion while respecting your hearing is the best rule of thumb..

The FH3 looks like a nice option with as simple of a build as a BIB cab.. A great first project option I think both are, and possibly the last ones someone may want to build once they've settled in with them etc..

I think Hm sometimes gets misunderstood do to language barriers etc .. You should just build it Horst and listen, especially now.. I think if you build them and set them up properly, spend some time listening you may find they are quite a good option for a easier DIY project :cool:

planet10 4th March 2011 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveCan (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-post2490855.html#post2490855)
I've never really gotten all this fuss over loudness capabilities etc..

Guess some people just want to ruin their hearing.

dave

MJK 4th March 2011 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chris661 (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-post2490820.html#post2490820)
With a pair of drivers, both seeing 1w, with a starting efficiency of 93dB per side, you'll get 99dB from the system, both channels driven to a watt.
Next up, I give you exhibit A...
ESP - The Linkwitz Transform Circuit
So the speakers will be moving much less than otherwise thought. Sure, if you ran some sweeps, they'd move a lot, but with much of the bass energy in music ~12dB down, that's a lot of excursion saved.

I am not sure how you arrived at a reduction in driver displacement, a Linkwitz Transform Circuit is going to increase the driver deflection significantly at lower frequencies. The article referenced specifically recommends a driver with a large Xmax.

Second point, the plots Dave posted are RMS deflection and not peak deflection. Multiply the results by 1.414 to see peak values.

I can understand where hm is coming from, maybe his message is not delivered as smoothly as others would like. The FH Mk3 is an interesting design and seems to be a good performer by all reports. Clearly the design was generated by computer models and not by trial and error. If somebody is asking for a peak at the results from the models, why not show them some of the predictions? It is easy to model if you have the tools and want to reverse engineer the design and expected performance (I did it a few weeks ago in about 15 minutes). If hm wants to claim his designs are better or different, he should be able to provide the same information about his predicted performance.

Way too much talking and not enough engineering.

Martin

rjbond3rd 4th March 2011 01:26 PM

AJ Horn v.5 makes it easy to focus on impedance and excursion as the main factors.

Like Horst, the Replikon designers focused largely on impedance and excursion. AJ Horn is great (!) and makes it incredibly easy to design a "classical" BLH.

But v.5 does not do the finer details of the geometry, baffle step, room dimensions, position of the listener's ears, etc. (I haven't checked out v.6 yet.)

So the MJK software is just a much bigger package, more factors modeled, different tradeoffs possible.

Horst, don't worry about your English, I never had trouble understanding you :)

hm 4th March 2011 01:42 PM

Hello,
look my Kornett, real measurement and single simulation,
i never see a real measurement of FH Mk3, make it and show us,
93 dB at 50 Hz from a 126 what a dream.

MJK 4th March 2011 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hm (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/172605-frugel-horn-mk3-post2491074.html#post2491074)
look my Kornett, real measurement and single simulation,
i never see a real measurement of FH Mk3, make it and show us,
93 dB at 50 Hz from a 126 what a dream.

So why not post your simulated displacement curve here? Is the Kornett a competitive design to the FH Mk3 - same size enclosure, driver diameter, and approximate cost. I am not going to go fishing through other sites looking for data. If your measured electrical impedance matches the calculated electrical impedance, then we can assumed the calculated displacement curve is accurate.

If you are asking for the FH Mk3 designers to post data you have to be willing to post your own data in return. If you don't then you are no better than what you accuse them of being.

Martin

bigfishe 4th March 2011 03:24 PM

Here here!

hm 4th March 2011 03:51 PM

Hello !!
all to see here:kornettmess
and in prinzip, scroll down, here:about what


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