Hi All;
I'm new here (been a lurker for sometime though), and I'm asking advice for choosing a cabinet to build for either CHR or EL 70. The Fonken 167 also appeals to me a lot.
It is for mains for a home theater setup. The amp to be used will be my new gainclone (Audiosector kit)mono blocks configured in parallel. I'm currently running subs but will be building some new ones (Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba 18)as well. I'm planning to do the mains speakers first.
My receiver is an Onkyo Integra 40.1 it has configurable crossover and EQ for mains, center, and surrounds. It also has a bi-amping option for the mains, and pre-outs for all channels.
I'm hoping to build something that is 4ohms and will go down to at least 80Hz. I can configure the crossover to go lower, but I can't configure the subs to crossover above 80Hz. Cost is a factor as well.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Regards,
Wayne
I'm new here (been a lurker for sometime though), and I'm asking advice for choosing a cabinet to build for either CHR or EL 70. The Fonken 167 also appeals to me a lot.
It is for mains for a home theater setup. The amp to be used will be my new gainclone (Audiosector kit)mono blocks configured in parallel. I'm currently running subs but will be building some new ones (Bill Fitzmaurice Tuba 18)as well. I'm planning to do the mains speakers first.
My receiver is an Onkyo Integra 40.1 it has configurable crossover and EQ for mains, center, and surrounds. It also has a bi-amping option for the mains, and pre-outs for all channels.
I'm hoping to build something that is 4ohms and will go down to at least 80Hz. I can configure the crossover to go lower, but I can't configure the subs to crossover above 80Hz. Cost is a factor as well.
Any advice is much appreciated.
Regards,
Wayne
Wayne,
Do you have any space constraints? Is there a reason you're wanting to build something 4ohm or would an 8ohm speaker do well for you too? Seems like you have plenty of power at your disposal. The dual driver designs would be best for you since you'll likely be running them quite loud and expect decent bass response since they'll be mains.
I've experimented with both the CHR70 and the EL70 in similar dual driver styles. I've tested the Thirlmere bipole and the Coniston^2 designs for the EL70 and the Lotus^2.
All three of the designs are extremely usable below 80hz but do well crossed over 80hz if you're going to be running them loud with a sub. Thirlmere bipole is more finicky about placement so it might not be the best choice. The Coniston^2 and Lotus^2 designs were very impressive and were my favorite to date. It was almost a year between building the Coniston set and the Lotus set so I'm not quite sure I could say which I liked better. I'd love to have heard them side by side.
After the breakin period the EL70 should have a little bit better HF response and sound a bit more natural. The CHR70 is very accurate though and I think the new cone profile design will yield similar HF response to the EL. Here are links to the plans of all 3 and pictures of the ones I built.
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/download/English-Auto-Series-061109.pdf
http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/CSS/EL70/Lake-District-maps-080909.pdf
Do you have any space constraints? Is there a reason you're wanting to build something 4ohm or would an 8ohm speaker do well for you too? Seems like you have plenty of power at your disposal. The dual driver designs would be best for you since you'll likely be running them quite loud and expect decent bass response since they'll be mains.
I've experimented with both the CHR70 and the EL70 in similar dual driver styles. I've tested the Thirlmere bipole and the Coniston^2 designs for the EL70 and the Lotus^2.
All three of the designs are extremely usable below 80hz but do well crossed over 80hz if you're going to be running them loud with a sub. Thirlmere bipole is more finicky about placement so it might not be the best choice. The Coniston^2 and Lotus^2 designs were very impressive and were my favorite to date. It was almost a year between building the Coniston set and the Lotus set so I'm not quite sure I could say which I liked better. I'd love to have heard them side by side.
After the breakin period the EL70 should have a little bit better HF response and sound a bit more natural. The CHR70 is very accurate though and I think the new cone profile design will yield similar HF response to the EL. Here are links to the plans of all 3 and pictures of the ones I built.
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FH/download/English-Auto-Series-061109.pdf
http://homepage.mac.com/planet10/CSS/EL70/Lake-District-maps-080909.pdf
Not really any space constraints. 4ohm because that's how I configured it (the chipamps). I can use 8ohm as well but if I can find something in 4ohm it is preferable.
Thanks for the advice and pics, I will definately check those designs out. Your speakers look great! - and yes, LOUD is how I like it.
Thanks for the advice and pics, I will definately check those designs out. Your speakers look great! - and yes, LOUD is how I like it.
The MA drivers will be a better match to either of your amplifiers.
Both the MA drivers are capable of going quite low so 80 hz is a breeze. Relieved of anything below 80 Hz, they will play louder... still, a pair (or even quad) of drivers per side would let the drivers loaf more . A single would be 4 ohms, a pair 8 ohms, a quad back to 4 ohms.
There are lots of box choices for these drivers, if you only need 80 Hz the need for the big boxes are not really needed. I've not heard Coniston^2, but i can say that the primeSize miniOnken, the Mar-Kel70, is stunning, and unassisted, they play pretty loud (for me) in my BIG room. With EL70eN of course. If there is interest i could come up with a 2 driver version, giving something similar to Fonken167 visually -- Bob brought a dual driver BR to the diyFEST last year, no real loss due to 2 front firing drivers.
How exactly are your GC configured? 2 channels per side, paralleled? What are the rails?
dave
Both the MA drivers are capable of going quite low so 80 hz is a breeze. Relieved of anything below 80 Hz, they will play louder... still, a pair (or even quad) of drivers per side would let the drivers loaf more . A single would be 4 ohms, a pair 8 ohms, a quad back to 4 ohms.
There are lots of box choices for these drivers, if you only need 80 Hz the need for the big boxes are not really needed. I've not heard Coniston^2, but i can say that the primeSize miniOnken, the Mar-Kel70, is stunning, and unassisted, they play pretty loud (for me) in my BIG room. With EL70eN of course. If there is interest i could come up with a 2 driver version, giving something similar to Fonken167 visually -- Bob brought a dual driver BR to the diyFEST last year, no real loss due to 2 front firing drivers.
How exactly are your GC configured? 2 channels per side, paralleled? What are the rails?
dave
Thanks Dave.
When you say MA you mean Mark Audio? CHR-70?
My GC is paralled which is why the 4ohms, 31 volts per rail. I don't mind running in bridged just that I don't have a balanced source. I am pretty open to configuring the GC to whatever is best suited to the speakers. My current speakers are 8ohm Polk RT 400's.
My subs are a pair of 18" Peavey PA subs running through a Joe Meek SixQ Channel strip to a Peavey GPS 2600 amp bridged. They don't sound great but that's what I got for now. I don't use the subs for listening to music just for movies.
So, I guess if I have options I would prefer a design that will go low for music. Easy to change crossover for movie watching.
I would have a lot of interest in a 2 driver version (visually) of the Fonken167!
Regards,
Wayne
When you say MA you mean Mark Audio? CHR-70?
My GC is paralled which is why the 4ohms, 31 volts per rail. I don't mind running in bridged just that I don't have a balanced source. I am pretty open to configuring the GC to whatever is best suited to the speakers. My current speakers are 8ohm Polk RT 400's.
My subs are a pair of 18" Peavey PA subs running through a Joe Meek SixQ Channel strip to a Peavey GPS 2600 amp bridged. They don't sound great but that's what I got for now. I don't use the subs for listening to music just for movies.
So, I guess if I have options I would prefer a design that will go low for music. Easy to change crossover for movie watching.
I would have a lot of interest in a 2 driver version (visually) of the Fonken167!
Regards,
Wayne
Yes. Both the CHR70 & EL70 are made by Mark Audio. The latter were made for Bob so have his label. I also got some of those to treat and put my label on.
That might be a little high a rail to just use 2 channels/side each to drive 1 of 2 drivers.
I haven't had a chance to measure them, but i'm gonna guess the Mar-Kel70 get into the 40s. I'll get to work on the squared version.
dave
lemme ride my current hobbyhorse:
"Castle" version of dual driver Microtower (the lighter Cinnamon Cherry veneer pair displayed herein)
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/microTower-maps-150909.pdf
not a tough build (certainly easier than the floorstander Fonken167s), very small footprint, and in at least one household, very high WAF
"Castle" version of dual driver Microtower (the lighter Cinnamon Cherry veneer pair displayed herein)
http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/downloads/microTower-maps-150909.pdf
not a tough build (certainly easier than the floorstander Fonken167s), very small footprint, and in at least one household, very high WAF
We can't really get 'proper' Baltic Birch ply over here either (not without a lengthy struggle and paying a fortune) but the standard birch ply is usually pretty good & it's very rare to find even a tiny void in it. Can't speak for what you can find locally of course, but I suspect it's going to be the pick of the bunch, and I'd certainly go with it over the maple (usually more plys as Dave mentions) or MDF (which kills you, and is sonically inferior due to its lack of stiffness / higher density).
By 'void' free, you mean knots and stuff? I'll have to go back and check how many plies the Birch has. I did find one store that had a 5x5 sheet of BB but I think I need more than that. Haven't received Dave's plans yet, but he said he was working on something. Everything here is closed tomorrow so I'll check on Saturday.
Hi,
I have also been looking at building small bookshelf speakers, and the demise of the FE167 has made me look more carefully at the CHR70. Does anybody have an opinion on (or better yet listened to) the till-2 design from MA? Double drivers would help recover the sensitivity a bit and present a more gentle 8 ohm load, and given the CHR70 price this seems pretty attractive. Any chance for an 8-literish mini m-di-MA-onken?
-E
I have also been looking at building small bookshelf speakers, and the demise of the FE167 has made me look more carefully at the CHR70. Does anybody have an opinion on (or better yet listened to) the till-2 design from MA? Double drivers would help recover the sensitivity a bit and present a more gentle 8 ohm load, and given the CHR70 price this seems pretty attractive. Any chance for an 8-literish mini m-di-MA-onken?
-E
Just got power back from being out all day, i'm playing catchup.
Void free means that any knots falling out etc have been filled so that there is wood instead of air.
I've gotta go down stairs and fire up the Mac with the plans on it before i can do get them and do a 1st pass at a cut plan.
dave
What you got in mind Dave ?
Mar-Kel70^2. Have the 1st pass drawn, need to detail, dimension, check for gotchas and do a cut plan. Should be room in the (optional) false bottom for a single Trio8 or SDX7 for support in the lowest octaves if desired (there is a Wavecor that i find interesting, a Danish manufacturer building some of Scott's & my designs turned us on to it)
Should look like a skinny Fonken167.
dave
Hi Dave,
I have been sort of following this other thread, but none of these dMar-Ken 'betas' are dual drivers, are they? I played around with WinISD a little last night (of which I am a total novice/idiot) but it appears that two CHR70s really prefer a sealed rather than a vented box in a smaller enclosure. There was always a 3db hump at around 100 Hz no matter where the port was tuned. I was wondering if this generally would sound OK, compensate for the slight low-frequency attenuation seen on the driver response curves, or whether stuffing a slotted port (aperiodic) would tame this to an acceptable level?
Thanks
Sounds quite nice. I'm definitely curious to see a 4 driver variant as I love fullrangers as well as some volume.
That is my feeling. 8-12 litre sealed for 2 drivers. I's tend toward the big end. A dMar-Ken70 would be in the 20 litrish size. Not hard tp come up with.
dave
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