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chrisb 25th September 2009 04:56 PM

Jeff, the paradox of course is that by the time the average DIYer might have sufficient disposable income to actually consider any of the higher priced esoteric drivers ( e.g., items like Feastrex, PHY, Fertin, et al make even the SEAS and TBs pictured look low-rent), our faculties may well have deteriorated to the point of not "hearing" the difference.

OTOH, 40+ yrs in "the life" can accrue enough ennui that "so what? - lemme just enjoy the freakin music"

at our recent get together, there were handed out a few of those STFU cards - hell, I even got one myself while washing dishes when others were trying to conduct some "serious listening" - at a DIY party, what were they thinking? :spin:

badman 25th September 2009 08:27 PM

I find that more and more, I'm enjoying the design and build, but when it comes down to it, the stuff I make is all pretty darned good (I've accumulated some pretty awesome stuff over the years) and I don't critically listen much to any of it, unless I'm reviewing. A couple of my favorite albums goes a long way towards relieving the pains of reality!

Current are JBL LE8T in Nelson's TL design for the B20, with some customization, and a Heil AMT1 supertweeter rolled in at 10k (Really 22k but that's how I dealt with the sensitivity disparity).

GM 28th September 2009 04:09 AM


Originally Posted by CLS (
OK, then, how about a horn without compression? The [2*fs/Qes] still holds?

I don't have any hard evidence (precise measurement) to prove, but what I've experienced is quite differe from the [2*fs/Qes] upper limit. And please forgive my ignorance, is the gain by directivity control (projecting into limited space) considered by that equation?

I'm not sure if the copy here is legal, for your reference:

Like most things, it depends. I mean if all you want to do is control a driver's directivity above its mass corner up to some beaming point such as 90 deg, then of course it doesn't apply.

The formula only tells us ~the point where a driver switches from a point source (acceleration/rising response BW) to a mass controlled one (declining/~flat response BW), i.e. the box controlled BW and since a horn is basically just another vented alignment..........

FYI: BE 'legal' downloads:

Haven't read them though, so not sure what you're referring to unless his and other folks commenting that a horn's HF response is somewhat > design formulas predict, which is true, though we're talking about two different BWs, the horn's gain BW that the formulas are for and its rising on axis response due to driver beaming and increasing directivity control (DI) that WG theory predicts. If you BW limit a horn to its gain BW, then the formulas do predict its HF response as defined by 2*Fs/Qes.


GM 28th September 2009 04:23 AM


Originally Posted by CLS (
This is what I previously meant, Q number can be misleading in judging if the unit is suitable for horn loaded.

Again, until Qes is > ~0.707, any Q number is suitable for horn loading over some BW, so I don't see them as misleading at all and even then it's not really the limit since you can invert the design routine to horn load > ~0.707 Qes drivers to ~ 'critically' damp them.


CLS 28th September 2009 06:27 AM

Thanks for clarifications.

I think we were discussing the overall and final performance of a cone driver+horn combo. And of course there'd be LOTS of variables including directivity control, drivers' inherent rising responses... etc. We hear them as a whole.

So, is there any real case of a horn loaded high Q driver performing well? I mean, reasonably flat response over a wide usable midband.

FredT 3rd October 2009 11:48 AM

I noticed the 1772 is out of stock at Parts Express, which means somebody other than Bob has a pair. Buyers, please post enclosure information and listening impressions when you complete your pair.

Defo 3rd October 2009 04:29 PM

Do someone know an alternative international dealer other then PE?

tinitus 4th October 2009 05:43 PM

Horrible prices

VadimB 5th October 2009 02:26 PM

Meniscus Audio ( picked them up too, but they also sold out both 1772 and 1808. That's why I'm on hold too.


FredT 28th October 2009 07:20 PM

Guys, I hate to hijack this thread, but I got a surprise today. The TB 1772 isn't supposed to be available from PE until December, but here comes the Fredex guy with my backordered pair. The mdf panels for a Brines Acoustics TT-2000 are already cut, and Bob has sent me a schematic for his proprietary bsc filter for the 1772. :)

Speakers - FredT300B's Photos

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