see two new drivers -- - if the 15 had Q around 0.3 I'd try one in K15
Super 8 Alnico
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an8alnicospecs.jpg
Super 15 cast frame
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an15cfspecs.jpg
Super 8 Alnico
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an8alnicospecs.jpg
Super 15 cast frame
http://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an15cfspecs.jpg
reasonably priced too -
www.commonsenseaudio.com
am i correct in thinking the 15 can be used o.b. without the need for a additional bass driver?
the 8 would be more appealing to me if it were of a higher efficiency than 90.5db sens. unless i'm missing something it's fq. resp. looks to be in the same watt/meter db range of the seas exotic. not that i'd expect it to sound the same but at least audio nirvana isn't claiming 93db.
www.commonsenseaudio.com
am i correct in thinking the 15 can be used o.b. without the need for a additional bass driver?
the 8 would be more appealing to me if it were of a higher efficiency than 90.5db sens. unless i'm missing something it's fq. resp. looks to be in the same watt/meter db range of the seas exotic. not that i'd expect it to sound the same but at least audio nirvana isn't claiming 93db.
Well, you'd need a Vb of ~175.75ft^3. Each. That's based on the published specs. too, which have in the past been shown to be pure fiction (like the vast majority of other manufacturers, so they're not alone) -Q will likely be substantially higher, if past form is anything to go by, so count on needing even more volume.
For OB -should be OK, so long as high SPLs aren't a requirement, so probably good for smaller rooms.
For OB -should be OK, so long as high SPLs aren't a requirement, so probably good for smaller rooms.
Re: reasonably priced too -
You will still need another woofer to provide additional bass output. A reasonably sized open baffle starts to roll-off the driver's SPL response at 6 dB/octave starting at 200 to 300 Hz. So you will need additional bass output to offset this effect and keep the system flat as you go lower in frequency. Maybe a second 15" high efficiency woofer with a Qts > 1 running from fs to about 200 Hz would do the trick.
mp9 said:
You will still need another woofer to provide additional bass output. A reasonably sized open baffle starts to roll-off the driver's SPL response at 6 dB/octave starting at 200 to 300 Hz. So you will need additional bass output to offset this effect and keep the system flat as you go lower in frequency. Maybe a second 15" high efficiency woofer with a Qts > 1 running from fs to about 200 Hz would do the trick.
Re: Re: reasonably priced too -
are you referring to the 15" driver?Scottmoose said:
why are the phy drivers o.k. and rec. on their own / o.b.? www.tonianlabs.com/H21lb15_E.htmlMJK said:
Re: Re: Re: reasonably priced too -
Why do you belive those plots? They don't make much sense to me.
By reasonably sized baffle I was thinking 2 feet wide, the baffle pictured is much wider then what most people would consider reasonable.
Looking at the plotted SPL response and the driver parameters is another indicator that something is off. The plot shows a flat response down to 50 Hz. A driver with the Qts and fs shown could not do that in an infinite baffle. Looks to me like the response has been "adjusted" or they are doing some EQing.
mp9 said:
Why do you belive those plots? They don't make much sense to me.
By reasonably sized baffle I was thinking 2 feet wide, the baffle pictured is much wider then what most people would consider reasonable.
Looking at the plotted SPL response and the driver parameters is another indicator that something is off. The plot shows a flat response down to 50 Hz. A driver with the Qts and fs shown could not do that in an infinite baffle. Looks to me like the response has been "adjusted" or they are doing some EQing.
Yeah, I don't buy it either Martin. If I'm reading that right, it looks like it's supposed to be the driver, on the baffle-plan provided, in their anechoic chamber. So they must be Eq-ing it up. The baffle should start rolling off at ~73Hz & mass-corner on the linked unit is around 152.54Hz, IB, on the published specs. So under anechoic conditions, I can't see any way it'll be flat to 50Hz. Looks like it's been 1/2 octave smoothed too.
Granted, the PHY drivers do sound great though -they're one of my favourite wide-band units. Wish I could afford a pair.
Granted, the PHY drivers do sound great though -they're one of my favourite wide-band units. Wish I could afford a pair.
Re: Re: Re: Re: reasonably priced too -
haute fidelite magazine tested the phy's, not sure how they were measured but looks diff. from phy's plot -
http://haute.fidelite.com.online.fr/club-LB/phy.html
MJK said:
Scottmoose said:
haute fidelite magazine tested the phy's, not sure how they were measured but looks diff. from phy's plot -
http://haute.fidelite.com.online.fr/club-LB/phy.html
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: reasonably priced too -
Dear lord! That's a ton of inductance, as much as the current DIYcable subs (the XBL^2 stuff). But, who knows if that can be trusted, not a big fan of such heavy smoothing on the FR and impedance plots, and they ranged the waterfall to be damned near useless.
They still seem like very nice drivers.
mp9 said:
Dear lord! That's a ton of inductance, as much as the current DIYcable subs (the XBL^2 stuff). But, who knows if that can be trusted, not a big fan of such heavy smoothing on the FR and impedance plots, and they ranged the waterfall to be damned near useless.
They still seem like very nice drivers.
What if the baffles are placed at the corners, forming a triangular box open at the top? Would that prevent bass roll-off?
People usually put the baffles a few feet away from the rear wall, but i have no choice as my room is too small. I was thinking of new Audio Nirvana 15 Cast Frame OB (or even AN 12 Cast Frame) used that way.
extremis said:
It would probably help, BUT might also form an unpredictable midbass ressonance
Also, its no longer a dipole with totally different polar response
You may even have some "horn-effect"
I remember sometimes being in a factory looking fore the source of some beautiful sound
Looking up I saw only an old vintage 8" from an old radio or television, only mounted in a squared plate hanging on the wall, and it could actually fill a rather big place with nice motivating rythm
Thinking of it, maybe it would help if you make it open at both ends...floor and top
Nice idea tinitus, i will keep that in mind and give it a try as soon as i decide on the driver.
Now, suppose we could fix the bottom end response, what about the highs? David says there is no need for a super-tweeter (for AN 15''), but the graph look really bad at the top end (goes up to only 14K or so). Do you think AN 15'' could be used without any help (at top or bottom), or AN 12'' Cast Frame would be better as a fullranger?
Now, suppose we could fix the bottom end response, what about the highs? David says there is no need for a super-tweeter (for AN 15''), but the graph look really bad at the top end (goes up to only 14K or so). Do you think AN 15'' could be used without any help (at top or bottom), or AN 12'' Cast Frame would be better as a fullranger?
100-300 FR must be about impossible - this Lowther might be relegated to maybe 120-500? http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Lowther.htm
yes all these are actually broken woofers
that's a proper use for this kind of driver
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/philips9710.htm
I'd use even lower crossover point.
all these are actually broken woofers that's a proper use for this kind of driver
http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/philips9710.htm
I'd use even lower crossover point.
As always, the message is, if a monitor-flat response with near-perfect measurements is what you desire, FR drivers are not for you.
I don't know your antecedents MisterTwister, and having just got back from the Accident & Emergency hospital wing where I had to drag myself after my breathing went pear-shaped in a major way, I'm not exactly at my best, so forgive me if I misinterpret, or have forgotten anything. Or if I appear somewhat irritable. But your above two posts read like someone trying to stir up trouble. If you don't like FR drivers, that's fair enough. We all know their compromises perfectly well, and I have some sympathy for both approaches. However, some people do like them, so remarks of the nature you are making are both valueless, and a waste of everybody's time, including your own. This is the section of the forum dedicated to FR drivers after all. Everyone welcome. Assuming, of course, they don't try to put down somebody else's approach, just because it doesn't conform to their own views on what constitutes a good system.
I don't know your antecedents MisterTwister, and having just got back from the Accident & Emergency hospital wing where I had to drag myself after my breathing went pear-shaped in a major way, I'm not exactly at my best, so forgive me if I misinterpret, or have forgotten anything. Or if I appear somewhat irritable. But your above two posts read like someone trying to stir up trouble. If you don't like FR drivers, that's fair enough. We all know their compromises perfectly well, and I have some sympathy for both approaches. However, some people do like them, so remarks of the nature you are making are both valueless, and a waste of everybody's time, including your own. This is the section of the forum dedicated to FR drivers after all. Everyone welcome. Assuming, of course, they don't try to put down somebody else's approach, just because it doesn't conform to their own views on what constitutes a good system.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.