Geewizzercone, these Tang Bands seem like an interesting little speaker at a low cost.
Tang Band W4-1320SC 4" Bamboo Cone Driver $30
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-846&vReviewShow=1&vReviewRand=7159372
Tang Band W4-1320SC 4" Bamboo Cone Driver $30
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=264-846&vReviewShow=1&vReviewRand=7159372
Do a search you will find many have use them before and found these drivers to be quite good. I would have bought them myself if I live in the States.
Notice the spl is close to 90dB which is a big plus. Use them in parallel bipole config, and you will have a nice pair of speakers, efficient as well.
Notice the spl is close to 90dB which is a big plus. Use them in parallel bipole config, and you will have a nice pair of speakers, efficient as well.
I'm using them.............
It depends on how you use them.............
I love them..........
so does my wife.............
But I use them weirdly..............
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...ID=180422547&albumID=1552714&imageID=24436482
With the qts .37 and Fs = 75hz (if they test near manu spec)........A .3ft3 port with 2 drivers, you can tune to 81hz giving you a f3 of 85hz..................
I use 2 divers in a large sealed box (qtc .45) because I'm using a 12" below them and want to approach open baffle mids quality................
The box is 8" wide and 13" tall.................
I need to play with baffle step.
Funny how the equations matched up exactly to my real life needs.
Playing with a 10 band eq, I needed +3db at 125hz, 250hz, and 500hz...........That filled in the mids nicely..............
Crossing them passively may be a pain due to impedance spikes close to crossover points due to box alignment.................
I'll link to my long review when the full range driver forum is up again.
Norman
It depends on how you use them.............
I love them..........
so does my wife.............
But I use them weirdly..............
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...ID=180422547&albumID=1552714&imageID=24436482
With the qts .37 and Fs = 75hz (if they test near manu spec)........A .3ft3 port with 2 drivers, you can tune to 81hz giving you a f3 of 85hz..................
I use 2 divers in a large sealed box (qtc .45) because I'm using a 12" below them and want to approach open baffle mids quality................
The box is 8" wide and 13" tall.................
I need to play with baffle step.
Funny how the equations matched up exactly to my real life needs.
Playing with a 10 band eq, I needed +3db at 125hz, 250hz, and 500hz...........That filled in the mids nicely..............
Crossing them passively may be a pain due to impedance spikes close to crossover points due to box alignment.................
I'll link to my long review when the full range driver forum is up again.
Norman
http://www.zillaaudio.com/tb-1320-bamboo.htm
I've been enjoying mine for a few years now. They are great overall but when i listen critically sometimes male vocals have a slight nasal or stuffed up nose quality. Treble is clean but i extend it with a piezo on the rear. Certainly they are better values when on sale. Bass is deeper and fuller but not better than a Fostex 127e IMO. It has a less exciting, more laid back sound than the Fostex.
I've been enjoying mine for a few years now. They are great overall but when i listen critically sometimes male vocals have a slight nasal or stuffed up nose quality. Treble is clean but i extend it with a piezo on the rear. Certainly they are better values when on sale. Bass is deeper and fuller but not better than a Fostex 127e IMO. It has a less exciting, more laid back sound than the Fostex.
They are very good on OB
I used them on open baffles (pretty big at 32"x48") augmented with a sub for bass, and I liked that setup better than some other OB projects using more expensive 4"-5" fullrange drivers. IMO these drivers on OB sounded more "enjoyable," with better apparent clarity and dynamics, than Fostex FX120 and Jordan JX92S in similar OB arrangements. I did not hear any significant congestion or nasal sound in voices with those drivers on OB, but I did feel sometimes that they were a bit on the bright side. I'll highly recommend them to anyone who wants to build a very cheep and very simple but very very good OB system.
I have five of these 4" bamboo cone drivers, and now I use them (in ported boxes) as my home theatre speakers. For stereo I now listen to ToneTubby 8" guitar drivers plus two 15" woofers on each OB.
Cheers,
Kurt
I used them on open baffles (pretty big at 32"x48") augmented with a sub for bass, and I liked that setup better than some other OB projects using more expensive 4"-5" fullrange drivers. IMO these drivers on OB sounded more "enjoyable," with better apparent clarity and dynamics, than Fostex FX120 and Jordan JX92S in similar OB arrangements. I did not hear any significant congestion or nasal sound in voices with those drivers on OB, but I did feel sometimes that they were a bit on the bright side. I'll highly recommend them to anyone who wants to build a very cheep and very simple but very very good OB system.
I have five of these 4" bamboo cone drivers, and now I use them (in ported boxes) as my home theatre speakers. For stereo I now listen to ToneTubby 8" guitar drivers plus two 15" woofers on each OB.
Cheers,
Kurt
Re: They are very good on OB
I heard from a few sources that the Tone Tubby makes good mid ranger, may it be ceramic or alnico, can you describe what kind of midranger sound you get from these drivers. I strongly suspect it is the hempcone material that determines/dominates the sound quality, it has a fully sound than rather a thinner sound from the cheaper full ranger like FE167E.
BTW what do you use for the high frequency drivers?KCHANG said:
I heard from a few sources that the Tone Tubby makes good mid ranger, may it be ceramic or alnico, can you describe what kind of midranger sound you get from these drivers. I strongly suspect it is the hempcone material that determines/dominates the sound quality, it has a fully sound than rather a thinner sound from the cheaper full ranger like FE167E.
KCHANG
Good to know, I'm about to put 2 of them (4" bamboos) on 1 open baffle 2' wide, 3' tall (will sit on a 2' wide bass).........their mass corner is around 200hz infinite baffle....................
The drivers are vertically stacked, the center between them is 9.2" from the left, 14.8" from the right, and 24" from the top. Notice the .618 : 1 : 1.618 ratio.....................
2' from front wall, how low do you think this will go (-3db) ?
I'm also running a woofer with it............. I can run active crossover at 200hz (but that thing sounds really bad), or add a 10 band eq then make a baffle step circuit if the open baffle needs help to get to 200hz..............
What ya think ????????????????
Norman
Good to know, I'm about to put 2 of them (4" bamboos) on 1 open baffle 2' wide, 3' tall (will sit on a 2' wide bass).........their mass corner is around 200hz infinite baffle....................
The drivers are vertically stacked, the center between them is 9.2" from the left, 14.8" from the right, and 24" from the top. Notice the .618 : 1 : 1.618 ratio.....................
2' from front wall, how low do you think this will go (-3db) ?
I'm also running a woofer with it............. I can run active crossover at 200hz (but that thing sounds really bad), or add a 10 band eq then make a baffle step circuit if the open baffle needs help to get to 200hz..............
What ya think ????????????????
Norman
Norman, are you doing anything about comb filtering? I asked over at fullrangedriver.com but see they are down.
A friend recently got scammed on a set of $1000 white van speakers and i am trying to make something from them for him using 3" TB drivers. They almost fit into the holes and with some filing i think i can get them in so the grill cover fits. They are an MTM and sound terrible. Replacing with cheap 3" paper TBs (model 319S) the sound is much better but treble has a very swirly sound to it that i think is comb filtering. One driver alone does not produce this swirly sound (nor does my B20 + cheap piezo) but there is less output overall and my friend likes quantity over quality it seems.
Are you running both drivers full? If so, do you hear the swirly treble? Your drivers are much closer together than the MTM white van speakers. There the TBs are over 12 inches apart and may be causing the comb filter swirly sound.
LOL.
Godzilla
A friend recently got scammed on a set of $1000 white van speakers and i am trying to make something from them for him using 3" TB drivers. They almost fit into the holes and with some filing i think i can get them in so the grill cover fits. They are an MTM and sound terrible. Replacing with cheap 3" paper TBs (model 319S) the sound is much better but treble has a very swirly sound to it that i think is comb filtering. One driver alone does not produce this swirly sound (nor does my B20 + cheap piezo) but there is less output overall and my friend likes quantity over quality it seems.
Are you running both drivers full? If so, do you hear the swirly treble? Your drivers are much closer together than the MTM white van speakers. There the TBs are over 12 inches apart and may be causing the comb filter swirly sound.
LOL.
Godzilla
wow, with full rangers that far apart...........swirly is a good name for it.....
I have both of my drivers run wide open (hooked in parallel, vertically stacked).......
The frames are about 3/8" apart.
I decided for double the cone area for voice / distortion was more important than verticle dispersion.
I sit about 12' away a little below the axis center and love them....
I have the center of the 2 drivers on the same axis as the middle of the tv. I can't stand voices above or below a tv...........
Sitting that far away, the highs start wandering away more than 4 or so feet left or right of the sweet seat (due to the drivers dispersion).........
I'll get back to you exactly how high the ears are versus how high the center between the drivers........ I'd say I'm about 8" below the center at 12' away..........sounds fine. Stand up and you lose a some highs especially the sparkly stuff, take about a step or 2 towards it and bam, no highs what so ever..... But standing about 4' behind the sweet spot (I'm 6'3") there are highs but not as much as sittin in the sweet spot.
Because of how my dual driver setup is acting, I've decided against the focused array........... Thinking of a a 2' wide 3' tall with >8" side walls (that should get to 200hz without a problem)...........
make sure the polarity is right on the mtm fix (check drivers also) and the stock speaker may have been using drivers that roll off above 2khz naturally, being 12" between centers, if the Tang bands are run wide open, you'd be screwed unless you are exactly the right distance from each of them...............
Did you see my pictures of it ?????????
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...ID=180422547&albumID=1552714&imageID=24436482
Norman
I have both of my drivers run wide open (hooked in parallel, vertically stacked).......
The frames are about 3/8" apart.
I decided for double the cone area for voice / distortion was more important than verticle dispersion.
I sit about 12' away a little below the axis center and love them....
I have the center of the 2 drivers on the same axis as the middle of the tv. I can't stand voices above or below a tv...........
Sitting that far away, the highs start wandering away more than 4 or so feet left or right of the sweet seat (due to the drivers dispersion).........
I'll get back to you exactly how high the ears are versus how high the center between the drivers........ I'd say I'm about 8" below the center at 12' away..........sounds fine. Stand up and you lose a some highs especially the sparkly stuff, take about a step or 2 towards it and bam, no highs what so ever..... But standing about 4' behind the sweet spot (I'm 6'3") there are highs but not as much as sittin in the sweet spot.
Because of how my dual driver setup is acting, I've decided against the focused array........... Thinking of a a 2' wide 3' tall with >8" side walls (that should get to 200hz without a problem)...........
make sure the polarity is right on the mtm fix (check drivers also) and the stock speaker may have been using drivers that roll off above 2khz naturally, being 12" between centers, if the Tang bands are run wide open, you'd be screwed unless you are exactly the right distance from each of them...............
Did you see my pictures of it ?????????
http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/ind...ID=180422547&albumID=1552714&imageID=24436482
Norman
Hi ttan98:
I'm not using any tweeters or supertweeters with the ToneTubby ceramic 8" drivers. I've tried to integrate the 8" driver with some HF drivers, such as B&G Neo3pdr, and although the resulting sound had more "clarity" in the highs but it was more HiFi-ish and less natural, and I ultimately went back to the 8" drivers alone without any help in the highs. I may still try again to add a HF driver later, but at this point I am fairly content with the TT 8” driver as a wide-ranger. I do not shoot for a flat on-axis response, and put more emphasis on making the system sound like what I heard at real classical music concerts. Not sure if you’d like the sound of this system if your HF hearing is better than mine.
Comparing the TT 8"driver to Fostex FX200, the latter sounded somewhat softer or "vague." Other smaller Fostex drivers I have sounded less full in the lower mid and had less impact in comparison with the TT 8" drivers, and do not provide enough “grunt” in the sound of cello.
Hi Norman,
I think a 3' tall OB might be taller than you actually need, assuming that the bass module provides an extension of the overall baffle size down to the floor. I typically put the center of the driver(s) from the top edge at a distance that is half the baffle width. My experience is that if I can see over the baffle top edge objects behind the baffle I seem to get a better illusion of the soundstage. Perhaps it is all a mental thing. Nevertheless, you can experiment with the baffle height, starting with a tall baffle. It is much easier to chop a tall baffle short than adding height to a short baffle.
My guestimate of how low the twin 4" drivers can go on the 2'wide baffle is around 200Hz or a bit lower (assuming the baffle is not close to the wall, see below).
As to the distance from the front wall, my guess is that 2' is not enough to give you the full potential of the OB speakers. You might get some bass boost by keeping the speakers close to the front wall, but I'd be concerned about the confusion caused by the reflected sound. I try to have at least 6' between the front wall and the OB speakers. Generating a deep, wide, and palpable soundstage is one thing OB speakers do very well, but I've found that having enough distance between the front wall (and the side walls) and the speakers is the key to achieving such a soundstage. I don't know if you have the space to set up your speakers that way, but I'd suggest that you try it once to see if you like the result.
I don't fully understand the crossover options you described. If you use the active crossover, do you plan to EQ the woofer? Also, is the 10-band EQ to be used as a low-pass plus bass boost?
When I had the TB bamboo drivers on OB's, I just ran them fullrange (i.e., no high-pass) and use a sub to fill in the bass (2nd order low-pass) below ~150Hz. It worked fine but was limited in top volume due to the excursion limit of the 4" driver. If you don't need to play the system very loud, you can run the helper woofer this way, perhaps at a bit higher LP frequency due to the narrower baffle for, and depending on the woofer you use you might have to EQ it to compensate for the dipole rolloff.
My current approach to OB with woofers is to run a digital EQ before an active crossover to have an LR-4 crossover between the woofer and the fullranger around 200Hz, and use the EQ to flatten the overall response in the bass and lower mid, which may result in EQing both the woofer and the fullranger. In this way, the dipole rolloff and the pre-rolloff hump of both the fullranger and the woofer are taken care of. So far this approach works for me.
Cheers,
Kurt
I'm not using any tweeters or supertweeters with the ToneTubby ceramic 8" drivers. I've tried to integrate the 8" driver with some HF drivers, such as B&G Neo3pdr, and although the resulting sound had more "clarity" in the highs but it was more HiFi-ish and less natural, and I ultimately went back to the 8" drivers alone without any help in the highs. I may still try again to add a HF driver later, but at this point I am fairly content with the TT 8” driver as a wide-ranger. I do not shoot for a flat on-axis response, and put more emphasis on making the system sound like what I heard at real classical music concerts. Not sure if you’d like the sound of this system if your HF hearing is better than mine.
Comparing the TT 8"driver to Fostex FX200, the latter sounded somewhat softer or "vague." Other smaller Fostex drivers I have sounded less full in the lower mid and had less impact in comparison with the TT 8" drivers, and do not provide enough “grunt” in the sound of cello.
Hi Norman,
I think a 3' tall OB might be taller than you actually need, assuming that the bass module provides an extension of the overall baffle size down to the floor. I typically put the center of the driver(s) from the top edge at a distance that is half the baffle width. My experience is that if I can see over the baffle top edge objects behind the baffle I seem to get a better illusion of the soundstage. Perhaps it is all a mental thing. Nevertheless, you can experiment with the baffle height, starting with a tall baffle. It is much easier to chop a tall baffle short than adding height to a short baffle.
My guestimate of how low the twin 4" drivers can go on the 2'wide baffle is around 200Hz or a bit lower (assuming the baffle is not close to the wall, see below).
As to the distance from the front wall, my guess is that 2' is not enough to give you the full potential of the OB speakers. You might get some bass boost by keeping the speakers close to the front wall, but I'd be concerned about the confusion caused by the reflected sound. I try to have at least 6' between the front wall and the OB speakers. Generating a deep, wide, and palpable soundstage is one thing OB speakers do very well, but I've found that having enough distance between the front wall (and the side walls) and the speakers is the key to achieving such a soundstage. I don't know if you have the space to set up your speakers that way, but I'd suggest that you try it once to see if you like the result.
I don't fully understand the crossover options you described. If you use the active crossover, do you plan to EQ the woofer? Also, is the 10-band EQ to be used as a low-pass plus bass boost?
When I had the TB bamboo drivers on OB's, I just ran them fullrange (i.e., no high-pass) and use a sub to fill in the bass (2nd order low-pass) below ~150Hz. It worked fine but was limited in top volume due to the excursion limit of the 4" driver. If you don't need to play the system very loud, you can run the helper woofer this way, perhaps at a bit higher LP frequency due to the narrower baffle for, and depending on the woofer you use you might have to EQ it to compensate for the dipole rolloff.
My current approach to OB with woofers is to run a digital EQ before an active crossover to have an LR-4 crossover between the woofer and the fullranger around 200Hz, and use the EQ to flatten the overall response in the bass and lower mid, which may result in EQing both the woofer and the fullranger. In this way, the dipole rolloff and the pre-rolloff hump of both the fullranger and the woofer are taken care of. So far this approach works for me.
Cheers,
Kurt
Kchang,
I'm placing my baffle on a base so the center between the 2 drivers is close to the center of my tv...........It will sit on a 2' high bass module.
I've decided to make the open baffle 3' wide (offset 13.75" from left, 22.25" from right and 18" from the top) because i want the sucker to make it to 200hz............
I'm going to put a 4" thick foam box around the back of the drivers (I've done this before). I'm after the midrange clarity and lack of box resonances that only an OB can give. I don't want the euphonic dipole bounce, not my thing.......... I know and perfer a panel speaker 6' from front wall. But I can't do that with this one, hence the foam box helping me even more !!!!!!!!!!
I will run it wide open, I don't crank my music anymore. I can add a 10 band eq if it needs some help to get down to 200hz (and then make a baffle step circuit if it needs help) but I don't think I will need it.
I'm not expecting it to go below 200hz at all..............
I can run it with a 24db LR active crossover but don't want to. I agree with your recommendation of 200hz@24db wholeheartedly.
Norman
I'm placing my baffle on a base so the center between the 2 drivers is close to the center of my tv...........It will sit on a 2' high bass module.
I've decided to make the open baffle 3' wide (offset 13.75" from left, 22.25" from right and 18" from the top) because i want the sucker to make it to 200hz............
I'm going to put a 4" thick foam box around the back of the drivers (I've done this before). I'm after the midrange clarity and lack of box resonances that only an OB can give. I don't want the euphonic dipole bounce, not my thing.......... I know and perfer a panel speaker 6' from front wall. But I can't do that with this one, hence the foam box helping me even more !!!!!!!!!!
I will run it wide open, I don't crank my music anymore. I can add a 10 band eq if it needs some help to get down to 200hz (and then make a baffle step circuit if it needs help) but I don't think I will need it.
I'm not expecting it to go below 200hz at all..............
I can run it with a 24db LR active crossover but don't want to. I agree with your recommendation of 200hz@24db wholeheartedly.
Norman
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