double horn, bib or angular spiral horn?

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Hello,

I want to make a speaker with fostex Fe206E. I have these preferences:

Double Horn Design (wich has a fantastic look)
http://www.yildiz.edu.tr/~ilkorur/speaker/fostex_fe206e.htm

Helix-AG250BS small and looking at freq response it has great bass for his size and easy to build
http://www3.ocn.ne.jp/~hanbei/eng-angular.html

BIB the easiest and it seems to have a lot of bass. It's tall and slim and should be placed in the angle so it good for the style of the room. Looking at the frequency response it should be a funny speaker to listen.
http://www.zillaspeak.com/bib-fostex.asp

some have some experience on those enclosure?

thank you
 
I don't know the spiral horns. Re the BIB pipe-horn the FR is nothing like as bad as it looks -most of that ripple is flattened by the room.

Onur's design is a big vent reflex box. Dave & I have done a cabient of this kind: see the Bruce enclosure on http://www.frugal-horn.com/spawn.html -an update of this cabinet with an improved response & lower group delay is being drawn up at this moment (the design revisions themselves are complete) However, both for this, and Onur's, you'd be better off using the FE207E. The 206 will be happier with a long-path, higher gain design like the Sachiko cabinet also shown on the above link.
 
I've never seen anything like the Helix before. Thanks for sharing that one.
The BIB looks better with a Fostex 207.

Unfortunately I have no direct experience with these. I have some 207 in a Singular (plans available on BD design) But I am wanting to build some of the Spawn of Frugal-horn Bruce which might also suit the Fostex 206. Another cabinet that is worth considering is the Standard Fostex cabinet for the 208 sigma.

I think you should try the Helix, that looks quite easy to build, uses very little material and does not take a lot of space. Then keep researching and build something else as well because the Helix would have been so cheap.
 
well I already built the 208 sigma cabinet for the 206:D no words for it, every person that comes to listen is shocked, also rockers a and techno boy for the amount of bass. Beside the girl, that the listen a while and say "oh it's good" but in reality they don't care, also the music for them is or funny or boring, if it has not a drum with a lot of basses, and then the girl's ears are delicate so I can't turn up the volume too much because the highs hurts. Anyway girls in most cases has very nice body....

There's good design in that page, now I have to read everything...
 
ok I'm very interested in Bruce and Sachiko horn.

Bruce horn is less expensive to build because it has less pieces, but it's more difficult to build because of the angle of pieces. Looking at the FR, is it more full at 100hz region thant Sachiko but it goes less down?

Sachiko have more pieces but it's easy. It has a dip around 100hz, so how il it sound?

I have fe206e in 208e sigma cabinet, and looking at FR on fostex pdf it seems to have a dip around 100hz, but in reality when you listen you have a full deep voice. The male voice at his lowest point I think goes donw to 100hz, right? so...
 

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...and these are Tuomas's stunning Bruce's, with the FE206E. He used our dimensions / plans, but (obviously) being more than just a bit good at the old woodwork, he decided to build them with curved rather than flat panels. There shouldn't be much difference in the sound (the curved ones might be a bit smoother). His comments on the build are here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1242951#post1242951

Both Derek & Tuomas have done absolutely stunning jobs. There have been several other builds of both, plus the other designs, but these are the most recent.

Generally speaking, Bruce will go a touch lower, a bit more smoothly, but Sachiko has more gain, and controls the driver better, so it will go louder without distorting & have superior dynamics. A lot of the higher ripple in the response will be reduced in practice compared to the sim due to the multiple bends. We just offer a choice, and let the builder decide which suits them best. ;)
 

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With the Sachiko I read that you could use a flat panel instead of this:
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I hope you understand what I mean.....

difference in sound?

Let's talk about BIB

With the Bib the fe207e it's better suited than 206e because if the highet qts, right? But looking at the FR the two driver have the almost the same response

anyway driver with lower qts and qes, such fe206e haven't a more controlled bass?

Do you know any other 8inch driver with the same quality as fostex around the same $$?
 
Yes, you could use an angled panel rather than build it up out of multiple layers. In fact, the angled panel is strictly closer to the original Olson inspiration for the cabinet layout.

Within reason, the BIB pipe-horn isn't espeically bothered about the driver, if you design it for the driver parameters. The 206 will work just as well as the 207.

There's the Audio Nirvana range of speakers which are a similar price to the Fostex units, but don't really offer anything the Fostex drivers don't. The Visaton B200 is a superb driver, but best suited for OB use, or stuffing in the recently revised Loreena BVR box. Other than that, there isn't much else for the same money. The little Jordan units are stunners of course, but very small, so they're limited in terms of how much air they can shift.
 
testarossa2k said:

With the Bib the fe207e it's better suited than 206e because if the highet qts, right? But looking at the FR the two driver have the almost the same response

Have a closer look at the freq response of the 206 and the 207 before you buy anything. The 207 needs a helper tweeter unless your high end hearing is particularly bad. If I had my time again I'd use the 206. The 207 is useless above 12kHz, Phase plugs help a lot, bit it's still not really a "fullrange" driver. With phase plugs I suggest the surprisingly cheap FT17H with about 0.68 uF to start with. Did I mention Phase plugs? They really are mandatory.

I think the steps of the Sachiko are some of it's charm, it's a little boring without them, a plinth and top in the same style with 2-3 layers would make them more visually balanced, It's a good way to hide the wheels too! And you will need wheels if you need to move them about.
 
thank you Scott, but there you are very gentle an helpfull.



Have a closer look at the freq response of the 206 and the 207 before you buy anything. The 207 needs a helper tweeter unless your high end hearing is particularly bad.
no I was refering to the simulated FR of the BIB enclosure of 206e and 207e, it's almost indentical.

But yes I have to take in account that using the fe207e needs a supertweether. I was reading the raccomended enclosure by fostex and they always raccomend a tweether for any the driver. But looking at the FR of the 206e it isn't really needed. It's because they want you spend some $ for their stuff?

Anyway I did an interesting A/B comparison with my old B&W DM302 bookshelf. At first sight b&w appear and they really have a "closed" sound in comparison with fe206e, but I think, if my ear is good, that they go a little bit higher in FR, you can hear it just in some music for example in some cymbals the fe206e sound a little bit closed. The Fe206 brings you more medium frequencies. Anyway are things that can be only heard in a/b comparison and in specific circustances.

BIB vs HORN?
 
That curved speaker pic was saved into my folder of speaker designs called Inspiration. It's wonderful.

I also have a pair of B&W bookshelf speakers (model 610 something or other) that i hook up occasionally to compare to my BIB and other full range speakers. Even tho i always liked their reticent sound after spending years building my own i'd basically describe the sound of the B&W's as 'kah kah'.
 
They are nice aren't they? When he gets around to it, Dave's drawing curved versions of the BVRs (don't hold your breath though -I've innundated him with cabinet ideas recently... ;) )

Why do Fostex recommend a tweeter with most of their large FR units? Simple: they're honest enough to acknowledge that FR is a bit of a misnomer. There is no way on God's green Earth that an 8in FR driver will do high treble as well as a good super-tweeter. They can sometimes get up there, but they don't do it with much grace, so adding one to help out with the highs is useful. It's quite a cunning ploy really: use a driver that can cover the region from an octave below to an octave above our most senstive hearing regions (see the Robinson - Dadson curve) and then add a tweeter to take some of the workload off the main unit in the upper-treble, and, if sub-bass is required, dedicated woofers to handle everything below ~40Hz. The XO points are thus pushed well outside the critically important zones, to places where our hearing naturally isn't great, and they are therefore relatively innocuous, unlike most multi-way designs, where the XO is located slap-bang in the middle of the vocal range and the discontinuity between the different drivers is usually very (painfully) obvious.

As for the BIB v. the horn; it's like comparing chalk & cheese really. They're very different. The horn is technically a far more advanced design, and if you don't have corners or a rear-wall to load the pipe-horns (BIBs) properly, then they should have the edge. They're a heavier & more complicated build though. In terms of presentation, I think you'd find that Sachiko will sound similar to the 208ESigma cabinet, but 'this one goes all the way up to 11' as they say on Spinal Tap. And then some. It'll be a (much) larger sound, with more gain, & should go a little lower. The BIB OTOH will sound like nothing you've heard before. They have a dipole-like presentation to the bass, and they go amazingly low. They sound like horns, but don't sound like horns. You'll hear a bit more ripple, though it's not as bad as the FR plots suggest, as I mentioned before.
 
Angular spiral :) nice

I have a pair of the smaller brothers :eek: replaced them with frugels :smash: Happy with the result :) My advice is ... "bigger is better" :D - go for a horn

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.


I think you should try the Helix, that looks quite easy to build, uses very little material and does not take a lot of space. Then keep researching and build something else as well because the Helix would have been so cheap.

Very good advise!
 
, but 'this one goes all the way up to 11' as they say on Spinal Tap
what do you mean? Spinal Tap is the metal Band?

I have corner to load the BIB and the room is very "gainy" because it has wood floor and it isn't very furnished, and it has some echos. BIB has full deep voices as horn? the fe206e is suited of BIB and don't need any filter circuit?

With Sachiko horn I should have planty of bass to, because having two mouth you have one mouth near your ears, right?
 
Generally you're quite right, there isn't a great deal of action below about 40Hz, unless you're into organ music. There are sometimes LF effects -the 25Hz heartbeats in DSOTM for example, and some sweeping keyboard / synth effects in progressive rock. Yes & King Crimson used this a bit. Otherwise, it's more a home cinema thing. Either way, such things are best left to dedicated woofers IMO. A couple of the new 15in CSS Subduction drivers in tapped horns would suit me very nicely. Can you tell I'm a bit of a prog. rocker at heart? :D
 
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