Folks,
Given that good old discordian Philosopher Bob Wilson gets a mention (in a thread about Girls no less - Bob would be so chuffed I think) I think giving some small measure of recognition to his work is due. Quoted here is under strict application of the "fair usage" law a section from the triolgies appendix, purporting to be a section of the Booklett "Never whistle while your'e *******" by Freiherr Hagbard Celine....
I feel that some of the concepts and ideas are very relevant to the social microcosm of Audio as much as to the social macrocosm on this little ball of dirt we call home....
Of Damned and other Things
==========================
I once overheard two botanists arguing over a Damned Thing that had blasphemously sprouted in a college yard. One claimed that the Damned Thing was a tree and the other claimed that it was a shrub. They each had good scholary arguments, and they were still debating when I left them. The world is forever spawning Damned Things- things that are neither tree nor shrub, fish nor fowl, black nor white- and the categorical thinker can only regard the spiky and buzzing world of sensory fact as a profound insult to his card-index system of classifications. Worst of all are the facts which violate "common sense", that dreary bog of sullen prejudice and muddy inertia. The whole history of science is the odyssey of a pixilated card-indexer perpetually sailing between such Damned Things and desperately juggling his classifications to fit them in, just as the history of politics is the futile epic of a long series of attempts to line up the Damned Things and cajole them to march in regiment.
Every ideology is a mental murder, a reduction of dynamic living
processes to static classifications, and every classification is a
Damnation, just as every inclusion is an exclusion. In a busy,
buzzing universe where no two snow flakes are identical, and no two trees are identical, and no two people are identical- and, indeed, the smallest sub-atomic particle, we are assured, is not even identical with itself from one microsecond to the next - every card-index system is a delusion. "Or, to put it more charitably," as
Nietzsche says, "we are all better artists than we realize."
It is easy to see that label "Jew" was a Damnation in Nazi Germany, but actually the label "Jew" is a Damnation anywhere, even where anti-semitism does not exist. "He is a Jew," "He is a doctor," and "He is a poet" mean, to the card indexing centre of the cortex, that my experience with him will be like my experience with other Jews, other doctors, and other poets. Thus, individuality is ignored when identity is asserted. At a party or any place where strangers meet, watch this mechanism in action.
Behind the friendly overtures there is wariness as each person fishes for the label that will identify and Damn the other. Finally, it is revealed: "Oh, he's an advertising copywriter," "Oh, he's an engine-lathe operator." Both parties relax, for now they know how to behave, what roles to play in the game. Ninety-nine percent of each has been Damned; the other is reacting to
the 1 percent that has been labeled by the card-index machine.
Certain Damnations are socially and intellectually necessary, of
course. A custard pie thrown in a comedian's face is Damned by the physicist who analyzes it according to the Newtonian laws of motion. These equations tell us we want to know about the impact of the pie on the face, but nothing about the human meaning of pie-throwing. A cultural anthropologist, analyzing the social function of the comedian as shaman, court jester, and king's surrogate, explains the pie-throwing as a survival of the Feast of Fools and the killing of the king's double. This Damns the subject in another way. A psychoanalyst, finding an Oedipal castration ritual here, has performed a third Damnation, and the Marxist, seeing an outlet for the worker's repressed rage against the bosses, performs a fourth. Each Damnation has its values and uses, but is nonetheless a Damnation unless its partial and arbitrary nature is recognized. The poet, who compares the pie in the comedian's face with Decline of the West or his own lost love, commits a fifth Damnation, but in this case the game element and the whimsicality of the symbolism are safely obvious. At least, one would hope so; reading the New Critics occasionally raises doubts on this point.
Human society can be structured either according to the principle of authority or according to the principle of liberty. Authority is a
static social configuration in which people act as superiors and inferiors: a sado-masochistic relationship. Liberty is a dynamic
social configuration in which people act as equals: an erotic relationship. In every interaction between people, either Authority or Liberty is the dominant factor. Families, churches, lodges, clubs and corporations are either more authoritarian than libertarian or more libertarian than authoritarian. It becomes obvious as we proceed that the most pugnacious and intolerant form of authority is the State, which even today dares to assume absolutism which the church itself has long ago surrendered and to enforce obedience with the Church's old and shameful Inquisition. Every form of authoritarianism is, however, a small "State," even if it has a membership of only two. Freud's remark to the effect that the delusion of many men is religion can be generalized: The authoritarianism of one man is crime and the authoritarianism of many is State.
Benjamin Tucker wrote quite accurately: Aggression is simply another name for government. Aggression, invasion, government are interchangeable terms. The essence of government is control, or the attempt to control. He who attempts to control another is a governor, an aggressor, an invader; and the nature of such invasion is not changed, whether it be made by one man upon another man, after the manner of the ordinary criminal, or by
one man upon all other men, after the manner of an absolute monarch, or by all other men upon one man, after the manner of a modern democracy. Tucker's use of the word "invasion" is remarkably precise, considering that he wrote more than fifty years before the basic discovery of ethology. Every act of authority is, in fact, an invasion of the psychic and physical territory of another.
Every fact of science was once Damned. Every invention was considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly. The entire web of culture and "progress," everything on earth that is man-made and not given to us by nature, is the concrete manifestation of some man's refusal to bow to Authority. We would own no more, know no more, and be no more than the first apelike hominids if it were not for the rebellious, the recalcitrant, and the intransigent. As Oscar Wilde truly said, "Disobedience was man's Original Virtue."
The most thoroughly and relentlessly Damned, banned, excluded,
condemned, forbidden, ostracized, ignore, suppressed, repressed, robbed, brutalized and defamed of all Damned Things is the individual human being. The social engineers, statistician, psychologist, sociologists, market researchers, landlords, bureaucrats, captains of industry, bankers, governors, commissars, kings and presidents are perpetually forcing this Damned Thing into carefully prepared blueprints and perpetually irritated that the Damned Thing will not fit into the slot assigned it. The theologians call it a sinner and try to reform it. The governor calls it a criminal and tries to punish it. The psychologist calls it a neurotic and tries to cure it.
Still, the Damned Thing will not fit into their slots.
==============================================
Sayonara
Fnord
A totally unrelated link:
The Antiqueties of the Illuminati
=======================
http://www.antiqillum.com/
Fnord
A totally related link:
Heavy Grass
=========
http://www.rawilson.com/goldenapple.shtml
Fnord
A somewhat related link:
Principia Discordia
=============
http://www.ology.org/principia/
Fnord
You should now inexplicably feel a state of acute paranoia and panic.
Fnord
Given that good old discordian Philosopher Bob Wilson gets a mention (in a thread about Girls no less - Bob would be so chuffed I think) I think giving some small measure of recognition to his work is due. Quoted here is under strict application of the "fair usage" law a section from the triolgies appendix, purporting to be a section of the Booklett "Never whistle while your'e *******" by Freiherr Hagbard Celine....
I feel that some of the concepts and ideas are very relevant to the social microcosm of Audio as much as to the social macrocosm on this little ball of dirt we call home....
Of Damned and other Things
==========================
I once overheard two botanists arguing over a Damned Thing that had blasphemously sprouted in a college yard. One claimed that the Damned Thing was a tree and the other claimed that it was a shrub. They each had good scholary arguments, and they were still debating when I left them. The world is forever spawning Damned Things- things that are neither tree nor shrub, fish nor fowl, black nor white- and the categorical thinker can only regard the spiky and buzzing world of sensory fact as a profound insult to his card-index system of classifications. Worst of all are the facts which violate "common sense", that dreary bog of sullen prejudice and muddy inertia. The whole history of science is the odyssey of a pixilated card-indexer perpetually sailing between such Damned Things and desperately juggling his classifications to fit them in, just as the history of politics is the futile epic of a long series of attempts to line up the Damned Things and cajole them to march in regiment.
Every ideology is a mental murder, a reduction of dynamic living
processes to static classifications, and every classification is a
Damnation, just as every inclusion is an exclusion. In a busy,
buzzing universe where no two snow flakes are identical, and no two trees are identical, and no two people are identical- and, indeed, the smallest sub-atomic particle, we are assured, is not even identical with itself from one microsecond to the next - every card-index system is a delusion. "Or, to put it more charitably," as
Nietzsche says, "we are all better artists than we realize."
It is easy to see that label "Jew" was a Damnation in Nazi Germany, but actually the label "Jew" is a Damnation anywhere, even where anti-semitism does not exist. "He is a Jew," "He is a doctor," and "He is a poet" mean, to the card indexing centre of the cortex, that my experience with him will be like my experience with other Jews, other doctors, and other poets. Thus, individuality is ignored when identity is asserted. At a party or any place where strangers meet, watch this mechanism in action.
Behind the friendly overtures there is wariness as each person fishes for the label that will identify and Damn the other. Finally, it is revealed: "Oh, he's an advertising copywriter," "Oh, he's an engine-lathe operator." Both parties relax, for now they know how to behave, what roles to play in the game. Ninety-nine percent of each has been Damned; the other is reacting to
the 1 percent that has been labeled by the card-index machine.
Certain Damnations are socially and intellectually necessary, of
course. A custard pie thrown in a comedian's face is Damned by the physicist who analyzes it according to the Newtonian laws of motion. These equations tell us we want to know about the impact of the pie on the face, but nothing about the human meaning of pie-throwing. A cultural anthropologist, analyzing the social function of the comedian as shaman, court jester, and king's surrogate, explains the pie-throwing as a survival of the Feast of Fools and the killing of the king's double. This Damns the subject in another way. A psychoanalyst, finding an Oedipal castration ritual here, has performed a third Damnation, and the Marxist, seeing an outlet for the worker's repressed rage against the bosses, performs a fourth. Each Damnation has its values and uses, but is nonetheless a Damnation unless its partial and arbitrary nature is recognized. The poet, who compares the pie in the comedian's face with Decline of the West or his own lost love, commits a fifth Damnation, but in this case the game element and the whimsicality of the symbolism are safely obvious. At least, one would hope so; reading the New Critics occasionally raises doubts on this point.
Human society can be structured either according to the principle of authority or according to the principle of liberty. Authority is a
static social configuration in which people act as superiors and inferiors: a sado-masochistic relationship. Liberty is a dynamic
social configuration in which people act as equals: an erotic relationship. In every interaction between people, either Authority or Liberty is the dominant factor. Families, churches, lodges, clubs and corporations are either more authoritarian than libertarian or more libertarian than authoritarian. It becomes obvious as we proceed that the most pugnacious and intolerant form of authority is the State, which even today dares to assume absolutism which the church itself has long ago surrendered and to enforce obedience with the Church's old and shameful Inquisition. Every form of authoritarianism is, however, a small "State," even if it has a membership of only two. Freud's remark to the effect that the delusion of many men is religion can be generalized: The authoritarianism of one man is crime and the authoritarianism of many is State.
Benjamin Tucker wrote quite accurately: Aggression is simply another name for government. Aggression, invasion, government are interchangeable terms. The essence of government is control, or the attempt to control. He who attempts to control another is a governor, an aggressor, an invader; and the nature of such invasion is not changed, whether it be made by one man upon another man, after the manner of the ordinary criminal, or by
one man upon all other men, after the manner of an absolute monarch, or by all other men upon one man, after the manner of a modern democracy. Tucker's use of the word "invasion" is remarkably precise, considering that he wrote more than fifty years before the basic discovery of ethology. Every act of authority is, in fact, an invasion of the psychic and physical territory of another.
Every fact of science was once Damned. Every invention was considered impossible. Every discovery was a nervous shock to some orthodoxy. Every artistic innovation was denounced as fraud and folly. The entire web of culture and "progress," everything on earth that is man-made and not given to us by nature, is the concrete manifestation of some man's refusal to bow to Authority. We would own no more, know no more, and be no more than the first apelike hominids if it were not for the rebellious, the recalcitrant, and the intransigent. As Oscar Wilde truly said, "Disobedience was man's Original Virtue."
The most thoroughly and relentlessly Damned, banned, excluded,
condemned, forbidden, ostracized, ignore, suppressed, repressed, robbed, brutalized and defamed of all Damned Things is the individual human being. The social engineers, statistician, psychologist, sociologists, market researchers, landlords, bureaucrats, captains of industry, bankers, governors, commissars, kings and presidents are perpetually forcing this Damned Thing into carefully prepared blueprints and perpetually irritated that the Damned Thing will not fit into the slot assigned it. The theologians call it a sinner and try to reform it. The governor calls it a criminal and tries to punish it. The psychologist calls it a neurotic and tries to cure it.
Still, the Damned Thing will not fit into their slots.
==============================================
Sayonara
Fnord
A totally unrelated link:
The Antiqueties of the Illuminati
=======================
http://www.antiqillum.com/
Fnord
A totally related link:
Heavy Grass
=========
http://www.rawilson.com/goldenapple.shtml
Fnord
A somewhat related link:
Principia Discordia
=============
http://www.ology.org/principia/
Fnord
You should now inexplicably feel a state of acute paranoia and panic.
Fnord
Hi,
I list "rejected knowledge" among my interests but am able to take it all not THAT serious. As for the rest, to find follow the old formula from the emerald tablets latain translation:
V.I.T.R.I.O.L.
"Visitae Interiora Terrae Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem"
Visit the interior parts of the earth: by rectification thou shalt find the hidden stone.
Sayonara
93, 93/93
PS, never yourself too serious, "convictions make convicts" (or "Your believes imprison yourself")
Nielsio said:
I list "rejected knowledge" among my interests but am able to take it all not THAT serious. As for the rest, to find follow the old formula from the emerald tablets latain translation:
V.I.T.R.I.O.L.
"Visitae Interiora Terrae Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem"
Visit the interior parts of the earth: by rectification thou shalt find the hidden stone.
Sayonara
93, 93/93
PS, never yourself too serious, "convictions make convicts" (or "Your believes imprison yourself")
Nothing personal toward you Kuei Yang Wang, but that statement has got to be the biggest load of rubbish, the greatest lie I have ever read. How do you think human society began to degenerate into the useless load of crap it is today? Not doing what his creator required and therefore getting thrown out of his family. We are the descendendants of those who were disobedient who still bear the consequences. Oscar Wilde's statement is plain stupidity. I purposely avoid the use of the phrase " in my opinion". Again, nothing personal toward you Kuei Yang Wang. You are quite welcome to express your point of view here.Kuei Yang Wang said:
Kuei Yang Wang said:
The Illuminati triology is a must read for anyone trying to get a handle on our world today. It is a 1,000 plus page attempt to get the reader to think on their own, to raise their intelligence (this word used in sense defined by T Leary -- IMO the 20th centuries most significant pyscologist). It is a brilliant satire.
The law of fives cannot be ignored.
The Schrodenger's Cat triology (which i consider an important companion to the above) is somewhat more concrete, in that is explores some solid liberatian ideals. In essence Wilson takes the 3 leading theories of Quantum Physics, and then writes the same story assumming that for that version a specific theorem is true. Not only does he paint a good story, but sheds some light on Quantum Physics.
I have spent some time with Wilson when he came up to the Islands to do some lectures. He stayed at a friend's house (and i did too) and we got to stay up into the evenings and talk. He is brilliant, and takes his role of cheerleader seriously (some may get the irony in that).
dave
Circlotron said:
Circlotron, how come you think we are degenerated? Have you looked into the state of humanity in the (long) past? You remember Spanisch inquisition (not so long ago)? How the Romans treated people just a couple of 1000 years ago? Dzjengis Khan ravaging most of Eurasia and killing a sizeable fraction of the population? I can say with as much and probably more conviction than you that we are going forward, albeit excruciatingly slow. Call me an optimist.
Jan Didden
Hi,
Well, I was only QUOTING, statements quoted are not neccesarily supported unquestioning by those who quote. Before I deal with the theological implications however I would like to break a lance for disobedience. As with all things, what in one person is a virtue may in another be a vice.
In people like Martin Luther, Jan Hus, Abraham Lincoln and George Washington or closer to our time Mohandas ("Mahatma") Ghandi and Martin Luther King disobedience is quite a virtue.
And in his own quiet but determined way Jesus of Nazareth was disobedient. All they (the wordley powers in his day) wanted him to do was to shut up. When he did not they did.
Looking around myself, I feel that as long as Government by Man exists this government is injust and the more "Governenment" the more injustice and inequity is being comited. Thus DISOBEDIENCE is elevated from just a virtue to patriotic and civic DUTY, but that's just me.
Now for the Theological side.
When Jesus left there was the Churc of James and later John and that of Peter which was continued by Saul (later know as Paul) who was not one of Jesus original and direct diciples.
Once the Saulian/Paulian version of Peters (exotheric) Church became organised and stratified it started the way to becoming the "***** who lies with all the Kings of the earth" by becoming the state church of rome. The esotheric church of James and John (and ultimatly Jesus himself - read the Gospel of Thomas) was quickly surpressed and adherence to it's original doctrines (thought by Jesus himself!) became a heresy.
The according to Jesus essential experience of God (gnosis) and self transformation (born again from the spirit) of a diciple was replaced by obedience in the literal sense and ritual, indeed another trade of the birthright as firstborn for a bowl of lentil soup and droppings of the tables of the powerful rulers of this world.
While reading the Bible in the most exotheric sense (literal) and following it in the same will make most people better people (the same can be said about the Torah, Quaballah, Al'Quoran, Baghvad Gita, Tao Teh King and others), the litmus test of any inspired scripture is applicability on the three levels (Exotheric literal, Exotheric Allegorical and Esotheric) and only by passing through the veil and attaining the meaning is adequate understanding possible.
But again, that's just me.
I think even the creator himself has a somewhat more charitable view of Mr. Wilde, just as he has of all our flaws. I would also recommend that you pass through the veil and then re-read the book of genesis. Your understanding may be different then compared to now.
I did not take it personal, but rather as a statement of an ethical and religous personal viewpoint.
ThanX, I appreciate this.
Sayonara, 93 (Agape)
Circlotron said:
Well, I was only QUOTING, statements quoted are not neccesarily supported unquestioning by those who quote. Before I deal with the theological implications however I would like to break a lance for disobedience. As with all things, what in one person is a virtue may in another be a vice.
In people like Martin Luther, Jan Hus, Abraham Lincoln and George Washington or closer to our time Mohandas ("Mahatma") Ghandi and Martin Luther King disobedience is quite a virtue.
And in his own quiet but determined way Jesus of Nazareth was disobedient. All they (the wordley powers in his day) wanted him to do was to shut up. When he did not they did.
Looking around myself, I feel that as long as Government by Man exists this government is injust and the more "Governenment" the more injustice and inequity is being comited. Thus DISOBEDIENCE is elevated from just a virtue to patriotic and civic DUTY, but that's just me.
Now for the Theological side.
When Jesus left there was the Churc of James and later John and that of Peter which was continued by Saul (later know as Paul) who was not one of Jesus original and direct diciples.
Once the Saulian/Paulian version of Peters (exotheric) Church became organised and stratified it started the way to becoming the "***** who lies with all the Kings of the earth" by becoming the state church of rome. The esotheric church of James and John (and ultimatly Jesus himself - read the Gospel of Thomas) was quickly surpressed and adherence to it's original doctrines (thought by Jesus himself!) became a heresy.
The according to Jesus essential experience of God (gnosis) and self transformation (born again from the spirit) of a diciple was replaced by obedience in the literal sense and ritual, indeed another trade of the birthright as firstborn for a bowl of lentil soup and droppings of the tables of the powerful rulers of this world.
While reading the Bible in the most exotheric sense (literal) and following it in the same will make most people better people (the same can be said about the Torah, Quaballah, Al'Quoran, Baghvad Gita, Tao Teh King and others), the litmus test of any inspired scripture is applicability on the three levels (Exotheric literal, Exotheric Allegorical and Esotheric) and only by passing through the veil and attaining the meaning is adequate understanding possible.
But again, that's just me.
I think even the creator himself has a somewhat more charitable view of Mr. Wilde, just as he has of all our flaws. I would also recommend that you pass through the veil and then re-read the book of genesis. Your understanding may be different then compared to now.
I did not take it personal, but rather as a statement of an ethical and religous personal viewpoint.
ThanX, I appreciate this.
Sayonara, 93 (Agape)
Kuei Yang Wang said:
If they subscribe to contradictory standards then that is so.
I was meaning specifically disobedience to our creator.
I agree. The Bible say that God will re-assert his rule at some point he determines most suitable. Rule by mankind will be forcibly removed by him forever. I can't wait for that day to happen.I think me may well see it in our lifetime.
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