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litz inductor wire for speaker wire.
litz inductor wire for speaker wire.
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Old 12th June 2011, 10:29 AM   #21
SY is offline SY  United States
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litz inductor wire for speaker wire.
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That's a lot of work for something imagined.
100% agree. You'd have a bigger payoff with your efforts expended elsewhere.
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Old 12th June 2011, 02:25 PM   #22
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Originally Posted by marce View Post
I have played with litz wire and will do some more experimenting in the future, but with everything, I will want empirical data to back up any changes I percieve (I dont always trust my senses as so many thing inluence the way I percieve, this morning all my music sounds fuggy, this though is down to the effects of a few (!) cans of Carslberg Special Brew (AKA Hobo Pops) last night.

Have a look around for lazy electrons approx 84mm/hour
http://www.radioelectronicschool.net...ds/howfast.pdf
I will try to read that link later on. As far as checking the data? What if what is being heard is actually being caused by something not being measured for? That one type of cable trying to solve one problem, inadvertently eliminated a distortion that is never looked for, because it yet remains an unknown? As far as litz? The homogenization of sound may not be the best term. I see it as higher definition audio. Like focusing a microscope to get a crystal clear image versus a slightly fuzzy focus. On all the systems I have used it it always made a difference which was a step closer to reality. On one system it may have improved the sound, yet the system needed more improving in another way. Its just a standard I have learned to integrate into whatever I choose to do. I purchased raw litz, not the fancy stuff that you pay $200.00 a meter for. It looks like junk and is wrapped in a silk threaded wrap. Its a pain to solder because one must use a solder pot to tin the ends by melting off the enamel coating. But, I go for sound above appearance. When the music sounds excellent, no one is looking at the speaker wires.

Another audio component that I have been implementing since its inception back in the 80's, is the Barcus Berry Sonic Maximizer. It did not matter what quality speaker it may be. The BBE always improved the sound and added greater realism when used judiciously. The BBE works with correcting harmonics and phase problems that is almost universal because of the nature of speaker design. When listening nearfield, i can turn a pair of 400.00 speakers into something money can not buy by speakers alone. That is another component I will not do without. Aurally, to be without it, its like going visually without your reading glasses. If you wear glasses you will understand what I mean. Not very expensive either. Are you familiar with it?

http://www.bbesound.com/products/son...ers/vg360.aspx
I hate the way they market it today. When it was first introduced it was presented as a way to improve serious high end audio. Stereophile magazine gave a favorable review, amongst others. It makes well recorded jazz and classical music sound fantastic! The litz provides me with a clarity in combination with the BBE that is unachievable otherwise. Yet, litz is not as essential as the BBE. But I would not ever want to be without it after having heard the difference. Its a synergistic effect that brings you closer to a genuine live performance. And, you do not have to spend thousands only to find yourself wondering what the problem may be.

Wishing you well, Gene
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Old 12th June 2011, 07:01 PM   #23
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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The BBE works with correcting harmonics and phase problems
Their website is mainly woffle, but my guess is that it is just an FX box. Maybe a subtle FX box, but an FX box. So, you prefer your sound modified? Many do. Nothing to be ashamed of. Just admit it.

If I put an audio signal through 10's of metres of cable type X, then find that replacing the last half a metre with cable type Y appears to improve the sound then the most rational explanation is not that Y improves the sound (because there is still a lot of X in the system), but that Y distorts the sound in a way which I happen to prefer. It's what I call the vanilla ice cream model. Lots of people like vanilla ice cream, but some of them try to pretend that vanilla ice cream is actually plain unflavoured ice cream. They claim that adding vanilla does not flavour the ice cream, but it removes pre-existing contaminants which would otherwise spoil the flavour. When you give them genuine pure unflavoured ice cream they don't like it; to them it appears tasteless, so they add vanilla but claim that they are making the ice cream more pure!
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Old 12th June 2011, 07:13 PM   #24
SY is offline SY  United States
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litz inductor wire for speaker wire.
It does EQ, basically. Loudness control. Nothing wrong with that, it at least is actually something one can hear. Notorious among local guitarists and studios- there's a joke they tell about the Seven Stages, analogous to Kuebler-Ross.
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Old 12th June 2011, 07:14 PM   #25
pinkmouse is offline pinkmouse  Europe
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litz inductor wire for speaker wire.
Ah, the BBE. Tunable bandpass filters feeding harmonic synthesisers. Useful bit of kit for cleaning up muddy mixes, or adding more apparent low end to a mix. Not exactly what you'd call a wire with gain.
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Old 12th June 2011, 07:23 PM   #26
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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OK, EQ rather than FX. I have not come across it before, and the website is unclear. Maybe if it was sold as a plain EQ box then it would be cheaper? And I thought the 'high-end' had moved away from tone controls! Wait a minute: harmonic synthesisers - that couldn't be added distortion, now, could it?

Vanilla ice cream!
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Old 12th June 2011, 09:34 PM   #27
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Originally Posted by DF96 View Post
OK, EQ rather than FX. I have not come across it before, and the website is unclear. Maybe if it was sold as a plain EQ box then it would be cheaper? And I thought the 'high-end' had moved away from tone controls! Wait a minute: harmonic synthesisers - that couldn't be added distortion, now, could it?

Vanilla ice cream!

Its not an EQ box. Equalizers have been known to cause a phase shift. The BBE actually helps to alleviate common phase shifts caused by typical speaker design. It does not just boost the bottom end on smaller speakers. It also applies phase correction in the process, which explains why the image is always so well placed when using it. When using a sub woofer, I found a disconnect because of the gross time misalignment caused by placement. Some just don't care and only want to feel the room move. What I hear is bass to scale. I like the realistic sound stage.


No one can get an absolutely neutral reproduction of what was recorded. Too many variables. One must find something that pleases them personally. Period.
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Old 12th June 2011, 09:41 PM   #28
SY is offline SY  United States
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Actually, yes, it is an EQ box. Measure the frequency and response- it will take you less than a minute to convince yourself that one of its main functions is boosting of midbass and treble..

The phase stuff is marketing. If your speakers' frequency response isn't flat, you'll get phase shifts, proportional to the derivative of the amplitude with frequency. If you EQ them to make them flat, the EQ indeed introduces phase shifts- but exactly the opposite of the phase shifts of the speaker. As pinkmouse pointed out, this effects box adds extra distortion. It's the sonic equivalent of MSG. And many people like it or they wouldn't have been selling these thngs for as long as they have.
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Old 12th June 2011, 10:32 PM   #29
GeneZ is offline GeneZ  United States
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Originally Posted by SY View Post
Actually, yes, it is an EQ box. Measure the frequency and response- it will take you less than a minute to convince yourself that one of its main functions is boosting of midbass and treble..

The phase stuff is marketing. If your speakers' frequency response isn't flat, you'll get phase shifts, proportional to the derivative of the amplitude with frequency. If you EQ them to make them flat, the EQ indeed introduces phase shifts- but exactly the opposite of the phase shifts of the speaker. As pinkmouse pointed out, this effects box adds extra distortion. It's the sonic equivalent of MSG. And many people like it or they wouldn't have been selling these thngs for as long as they have.
I have tried Equalizers... even high end. Nothing from them like I hear with this. Nothing.


I wish you could hear what I hear. I think it would settle it for many of you. Of course, it would not be what everyone is looking for. For, I now listen exclusively near field. With a very good DAC, a very good small amp, and very good speakers. The speakers have not been given the litz treatment yet. New. Still breaking in.

What I hear is sometimes frustrating for me because I do not like knowing what I do alone. Like I mentioned earlier. I used to work in a audio shop years ago that carried high-end equipment. I have watched rich folks searching for that golden chalice. They spend huge bucks and convince themselves that it must be all there is, and still can not understand what is wrong.

In contrast, I listen to a set up of very modest means. It puts to shame the set ups I have owned, and those heard from others.. I find near field done right surprisingly excellent.

My niece's husband was playing a game on my PC that contained background music and dialogue. While playing he exclaimed how good it sounded. He is by no means an audiophile. When it sounds good, it simply sounds good.

I hope the folks here realize that I am not trying to compete with anyone to show off that I have what is better than others. Not the case. I wish to share this information. I am not trying to make someone jealous as I have seen some do in these types of forums.

I couldn't do that, even if I wanted to. For what I have anyone of modest means could easily afford. Its the synergistic package that makes it work. But, as I find as with other good things. The cynics are sometimes their own worst enemy. Always seeking to shoot holes through something, but never bringing home a fresh meal.

For the love of music... Gene
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Old 12th June 2011, 10:35 PM   #30
SY is offline SY  United States
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litz inductor wire for speaker wire.
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Originally Posted by GeneZ View Post
The cynics are sometimes their own worst enemy. Always seeking to shoot holes through something, but never bringing home a fresh meal.
Yeah, maybe it would be nice if I published a design now and then.
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