Hi
I know this is a audio forum but audio & video are usually related.
Hope someone can shed a light on this matter.
On a wedding venue we have two different projectors (different native resolutions). One near the DJ booth say 30 feet & the other 100 feet away.
There is a switch with extender (call it "thing") on the wall with one Input & two outputs. One HDMI output & one RJ45 jack that goes to the receiver for the other projector connected via cat6 cable.
It's supposed to work up to 150 feet.
The PSU is a standard 5V phone microUSB supply.
I'm aware of the resolution negotiation, but that's not the problem.
We don't use 4K, just up to 1080p HD resolutions.
So:
PC-"Thing"-DJ projector & RJ45 to the other projector receiver.
The problem is:
The cable for the HDMI input that came with the "thing" is very short, I need at least 13-15 feet to connect from the wall to the DJ PC.
If I use the supplied 6 feet cheap cable, it works... more or less reliable with less interruptions.
Using a longer cable, when I switch the curtain or the room AC I loose the picture on the projector far away & sometimes it recovers, but sometimes not & I have to power-cycle the "thing" or push the EQ button on the receiver which is concealed on the ceiling to regain sync. Not practical !!
The projector near the DJ booth usually doesn't loose sync, perhaps because it has lower resolution.
... and the blame usually goes to the DJ not to the venue owner.
Things I've tried:
New better 2A supply which helped a bit.
Better 23AWG Shielded / non shielded Cat6 crimped by me & tested at my home computers.
Brand HDMI cables
Active Splitters before & after the "thing" or "thing" receiver.
HDMI booster before the input or at the receiver.
AC strip with line filter for computer connected to the "thing" hoping it would filter something.
What's the fuzz about HDMI ?
I mean, standard certified 24 AWG HDMI cables can go up to 49 feet.
So, why doesn't a 15 feet cable work when connected to the "thing" input even with a splitter or booster before ?
What works & what my brother now uses when he plays there:
PC-HDMI splitter connected to DJ projector & Cheap 60€ Wish China 5.8 GHZ wireless transmitter for the other projector.
It works the whole night without interruptions & very good picture.
The Italian brand "thing" is probably a cheap "thing" & there are many prices to choose from.
Has anyone experience with this type of situations and can recommend me extenders that actually work ?
Thank You for Your attention.
I know this is a audio forum but audio & video are usually related.
Hope someone can shed a light on this matter.
On a wedding venue we have two different projectors (different native resolutions). One near the DJ booth say 30 feet & the other 100 feet away.
There is a switch with extender (call it "thing") on the wall with one Input & two outputs. One HDMI output & one RJ45 jack that goes to the receiver for the other projector connected via cat6 cable.
It's supposed to work up to 150 feet.
The PSU is a standard 5V phone microUSB supply.
I'm aware of the resolution negotiation, but that's not the problem.
We don't use 4K, just up to 1080p HD resolutions.
So:
PC-"Thing"-DJ projector & RJ45 to the other projector receiver.
The problem is:
The cable for the HDMI input that came with the "thing" is very short, I need at least 13-15 feet to connect from the wall to the DJ PC.
If I use the supplied 6 feet cheap cable, it works... more or less reliable with less interruptions.
Using a longer cable, when I switch the curtain or the room AC I loose the picture on the projector far away & sometimes it recovers, but sometimes not & I have to power-cycle the "thing" or push the EQ button on the receiver which is concealed on the ceiling to regain sync. Not practical !!
The projector near the DJ booth usually doesn't loose sync, perhaps because it has lower resolution.
... and the blame usually goes to the DJ not to the venue owner.
Things I've tried:
New better 2A supply which helped a bit.
Better 23AWG Shielded / non shielded Cat6 crimped by me & tested at my home computers.
Brand HDMI cables
Active Splitters before & after the "thing" or "thing" receiver.
HDMI booster before the input or at the receiver.
AC strip with line filter for computer connected to the "thing" hoping it would filter something.
What's the fuzz about HDMI ?
I mean, standard certified 24 AWG HDMI cables can go up to 49 feet.
So, why doesn't a 15 feet cable work when connected to the "thing" input even with a splitter or booster before ?
What works & what my brother now uses when he plays there:
PC-HDMI splitter connected to DJ projector & Cheap 60€ Wish China 5.8 GHZ wireless transmitter for the other projector.
It works the whole night without interruptions & very good picture.
The Italian brand "thing" is probably a cheap "thing" & there are many prices to choose from.
Has anyone experience with this type of situations and can recommend me extenders that actually work ?
Thank You for Your attention.
I spend my work days struggling with HDMI in public venues. It's cheap, nasty and often mysterious. It can work in the morning, then not in the evening tho you haven't touched a thing. That is to say: What you are experiencing is the everyday headache of an A/V tech.
Reading thru your post, it seemed that the first HDMI cable in line might be the problem. If it works with the 6 foot cable but not with others, that is likely the weak spot. The first thing I would try is an active (powered) HDMI cable in that section if you need to run 15 feet. 15 feet isn't much of an HDMI run, but it seems that your "thing" is sensitive to bad signal.
In essence you have done this by putting in a booster, but I'd still try a better HDMI cable on the first run.
What is the HDMI over CAT5 device? Is HDBaseT? Those have improved over the years but the early ones were horrible. Yes, they would work flawlessly in the shop, but never on a gig. In my experience, HDMI over CAT cable is always just on the edge of failure. HDMI over fiber is better, tho physically more fragile.
If you can borrow a long powered HDMI cable (or fiber) to temporarily replace the CAT5/6 cable that would also help you troubleshoot. Or - borrow another projector and plug it into the "thing". Some projectors are much more sensitive to bad signal than others.
I've been working as a video projectionist since 1986. Long cable runs can be a pain in the butt.
Reading thru your post, it seemed that the first HDMI cable in line might be the problem. If it works with the 6 foot cable but not with others, that is likely the weak spot. The first thing I would try is an active (powered) HDMI cable in that section if you need to run 15 feet. 15 feet isn't much of an HDMI run, but it seems that your "thing" is sensitive to bad signal.
In essence you have done this by putting in a booster, but I'd still try a better HDMI cable on the first run.
What is the HDMI over CAT5 device? Is HDBaseT? Those have improved over the years but the early ones were horrible. Yes, they would work flawlessly in the shop, but never on a gig. In my experience, HDMI over CAT cable is always just on the edge of failure. HDMI over fiber is better, tho physically more fragile.
If you can borrow a long powered HDMI cable (or fiber) to temporarily replace the CAT5/6 cable that would also help you troubleshoot. Or - borrow another projector and plug it into the "thing". Some projectors are much more sensitive to bad signal than others.
I've been working as a video projectionist since 1986. Long cable runs can be a pain in the butt.
Pano
The inline repeater I've tried wouldn't work if there was no power on the cable I believe.
I suppose it's the same what an active HDMI cable uses (those with the thingy in the middle).
https://www.gear4music.pt/pt/Audio-...MInL6q2PSY7AIVgoXVCh2qeAAtEAQYAiABEgJMmfD_BwE
The active splitter before should also provide power to the cable.
A 12m certified cable works from the laptop to the TV..so why doesn't it work with the "thing" ? I'm using just 5m Kramer brand cable, but tried others too.
I have a 20m thick Kramer cable which works fine when connected form a PC to a TV or monitor. I know it's not active because I had to replace the connectors. They broke because someone stomped on the cable. There are no chips inside.
Well I guess I'll have to read what that pin 18 is supposed to do...
What is an active powered HDMI cable ? Isn't pin 18 supposed to carry 5V power ? Guess I'll have to measure if the laptop actually outputs power...
The inline repeater I've tried wouldn't work if there was no power on the cable I believe.
I suppose it's the same what an active HDMI cable uses (those with the thingy in the middle).
https://www.gear4music.pt/pt/Audio-...MInL6q2PSY7AIVgoXVCh2qeAAtEAQYAiABEgJMmfD_BwE
The active splitter before should also provide power to the cable.
Suppose instead of the device GBC HD EXTENDER EVO | eBay there was a TV....
A 12m certified cable works from the laptop to the TV..so why doesn't it work with the "thing" ? I'm using just 5m Kramer brand cable, but tried others too.
I have a 20m thick Kramer cable which works fine when connected form a PC to a TV or monitor. I know it's not active because I had to replace the connectors. They broke because someone stomped on the cable. There are no chips inside.
Well I guess I'll have to read what that pin 18 is supposed to do...
HDMI is a pain in the ****, and frankly generally iffy in a production environment.
I suspect your problem is total accumulated jitter, and that a reclocking DA (If such a thing is available for HDMI) might help.
Failing that, Aja do a HDMI to SDI throwdown (So do Black Magic, but you get what you pay for) and SDI will be just fine over a mere hundred feet, especially at only 1.5Gb/s if you use appropriate coax.
I suspect your problem is total accumulated jitter, and that a reclocking DA (If such a thing is available for HDMI) might help.
Failing that, Aja do a HDMI to SDI throwdown (So do Black Magic, but you get what you pay for) and SDI will be just fine over a mere hundred feet, especially at only 1.5Gb/s if you use appropriate coax.
You can tell an active HDMI cable because its directional, the ends will be marked as to where they go, for example SOURCE and DISPLAY. Usually the connectors are thicker than normal, as they contain chips. They are powered by the 5V at the source. Kramer is good stuff, good choice.
As dmills mentions, reclocking will help maintain a good sync signal. Most boosters only do an EQ, not a reclock. Reclock is expensive. And yes, SDI is much more robust, it's our default cabling for shows. I'e had good luck with inexpensive HDMI/SDI convertors found on eBay. Electronically fine, but usually mechanically fragile. Not a big problem in a permanent install.
As dmills mentions, reclocking will help maintain a good sync signal. Most boosters only do an EQ, not a reclock. Reclock is expensive. And yes, SDI is much more robust, it's our default cabling for shows. I'e had good luck with inexpensive HDMI/SDI convertors found on eBay. Electronically fine, but usually mechanically fragile. Not a big problem in a permanent install.
Ok Let's SDI or Re-clock it !!
Been looking at SDI converters and all of them say use up to 16 feet input cable ... Houston we have a problem. The short input cable problem remains, but I can live with 4.8 meters.
By the way found the product page of "The cheap thing". It uses a Lontium (China) chipset, since this is what my PC detects..
Signal extension hdmi on ethernet cable 55m "poc" with loop hdmi port and remote control repeater (14.2810.40 - 14281040) - GBC Elettronica
Thank You for Your information and time.
Been looking at SDI converters and all of them say use up to 16 feet input cable ... Houston we have a problem. The short input cable problem remains, but I can live with 4.8 meters.
By the way found the product page of "The cheap thing". It uses a Lontium (China) chipset, since this is what my PC detects..
Signal extension hdmi on ethernet cable 55m "poc" with loop hdmi port and remote control repeater (14.2810.40 - 14281040) - GBC Elettronica
Thank You for Your information and time.
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Generally a short HDMI cable is used with these, 6ft or shorter. You place the transmitter near the source and the receiver near the display. The SDI coax does the long run.
Is that not possible in your installation?
FYI: The receiver can often be powered from a USB post on the display, if you have the right cable.
No. The receiver is in the wall & the DJ projector (nearer projector) cable is too short so is the Cat6. I could try couplers & bring the "thing" to the DJ booth... No sure if I did try..
No problem. All my ripped music DVD's & Blue rays are HDCP free I guess.
Must try with a photographer "same day edit" video as it is usually mandatory at that day, but my brother usually plays the video from the DJ software, unless it's in an obscure non standard format, in those cases the photographer laptop gets used.
Solved with this:
https://www.amazon.com/KuWFi-Extender-Ethernet-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B086GT1N8V
These are the only ones who tell the You the length of the HDMI in & out cable.
All others I've searched only tell You the length of the CAT network cable but not mention the HDMI cable. So, Plug & pray.
Since HDMI specs state max 13m for a standard HDMI cable, all converters / splitter / Switches / TV's should work at least with this length.
Mine came from Wish (cheaper) and worked beautifully in three weddings with a new 60m CAT6 cable without issues. I didn't try the cascading functions since I ordered a TX-RX set and used the loop out for the DJ projector.
Just would like to mention I was a bit in a hurry and had to cut the RJ45 connectors to install the cable after some hours of tubing hunting on the pladur ceiling and used the old non shielded keystones and CAT5e extensions. This week I will try to crimp new connectors, but I'm looking for easier connectors (pass-through with strain relief) since ordinary connectors are a pain in the *** to crimp on those thicker cables. Plan B is to use shielded keystones (have already) and small CAT6 or CAT7 extensions. My old crimper is also loosing it's cutting performance.
And Yes, sometimes we need to use broadcast aerial TV boxes at important Soccer matches when transmitted in open channels. I Think TV plans were not contracted at that place, since I couldn't find any stations on the router RF connection.
https://www.amazon.com/KuWFi-Extender-Ethernet-Transmitter-Receiver/dp/B086GT1N8V
These are the only ones who tell the You the length of the HDMI in & out cable.
All others I've searched only tell You the length of the CAT network cable but not mention the HDMI cable. So, Plug & pray.
Since HDMI specs state max 13m for a standard HDMI cable, all converters / splitter / Switches / TV's should work at least with this length.
Mine came from Wish (cheaper) and worked beautifully in three weddings with a new 60m CAT6 cable without issues. I didn't try the cascading functions since I ordered a TX-RX set and used the loop out for the DJ projector.
Just would like to mention I was a bit in a hurry and had to cut the RJ45 connectors to install the cable after some hours of tubing hunting on the pladur ceiling and used the old non shielded keystones and CAT5e extensions. This week I will try to crimp new connectors, but I'm looking for easier connectors (pass-through with strain relief) since ordinary connectors are a pain in the *** to crimp on those thicker cables. Plan B is to use shielded keystones (have already) and small CAT6 or CAT7 extensions. My old crimper is also loosing it's cutting performance.
And Yes, sometimes we need to use broadcast aerial TV boxes at important Soccer matches when transmitted in open channels. I Think TV plans were not contracted at that place, since I couldn't find any stations on the router RF connection.
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