There didn't seem to be a more appropriate place to post this, so if it needs to get towed elsewhere, let me apologize in advance. My frustration has been mounting as I take on projects. I don't want to muddy any of my other threads.
I have a hard time learning electronics. I have grown up around it, I have some amazing friends that are very into it, and I've tried very hard to pick it up myself. I have an above average IQ and lots of general knowledge about everything. I just have a hard time specializing. I've really worked my tail off trying to get past my study obstacles. I don't get discouraged but I do get frustrated, and my way of dealing with that is to apply humor. Hopefully people see that.
In the past few months I've been studying and seen some progress. I have the basics covered on passive components. I've learned what a voltage divider is, and how a rectifier bridge works. I can find them on a schematic, and I can also identify input and output sections on schematics if they're well organized. Those are things that I had a hard time with so I know progress is possible. I've reached sort of a plateau now, though. I know what a generic "transistor" does on its own but I can't tell you the difference between all the different types, and I lose my mind when I try to figure out what they do in the circuit. When I start reading about using a transistor to boost current vs transistors to boost voltage, my brain shuts off. I have to decompress for a while, and then go relearn the difference between current and voltage, I kid you not. And if you asked me right now to explain voltage - even though I can use a DMM and diagnose problems with a basic circuit - I have to go review it before I discuss it. You have no idea how many times I've read it over, watched waterwheel metaphor videos explaining it, and passed tests proving that I had the knowledge, only to forget it a few days or weeks later. Its not really an issue - as long as I know how to use the meter, and I can look up those explanations, I can get by. Its no different than having a calculator to do the math for circuits instead of doing it long-hand.
I think the reason why I can't move forward now is I can't get past the whole "voltage goes in here, goes out there" mindset when I study circuits. I'm a linear thinker. Things go from one place, go through some work, and end up on the other side. I know what that rectifier bridge does, and if I sit and map it out I can even explain it. But its still difficult for me to follow because there's four traces, one at each corner instead of one wire going in and one going out. So I had to learn the concept, look at it as a single device, and just pay attention to the values going in and coming out. Thats the only way I don't get stopped there every time I see one on a schematic.
Pick something exceedingly simple, like a GFA-535 (one of the simplest high-performance designs in existence) and can I try to follow it. My brain sees the signal coming in from the input, going past a handful of passives and into a transistor. But right next to it on the schematic is another transistor (making a differential pair), and there's a signal going in to it from somewhere else. Where the heck is that coming from? Its from that spaghetti mess to the right of it on the schematic. I think "why isn't the differential pair turned on its side, with all that stuff from the right now placed to the left, between the input and the pair, so that I can follow it from left to right?" And thats where I stop understanding the circuit. Now all I see are these traces that jump over each other, blend with each other, diverge from each other. Its very hard for me to follow because I keep looking at the circuit as a rollercoaster track for electrons, when I should be looking at it as a web of interconnected things that all affect each other.
But thats just the signal - what about the power that runs the whole thing? Well, thats over on the right side of the schematic. Why isn't it listed on the left side with the signal input so its easier to follow? Or put it above or below on the schematic so I'm not trying to pick the speaker outputs out of the power traces. Having the power come in the diagram on the output side seems like a restaurant kitchen: all the orders come in the same door that they go out, with the deliveries on the other side of the kitchen. Or something like that, I'm still working on the metaphor. In any case, it looks like a mess to me, while to you guys, you can follow right along. I was trying to figure out my Hafler preamp, and Maaco here said to me "start with the basics - follow the circuit". I couldn't, because there wasn't a linear path to follow.
I understand my major issue here - I look at the circuit from left to right, and follow the electron. This is completely wrong, and yet I have no idea how to get past it. Dahl tells me "don't look at it that way, the electrons are always there, they're just not moving until the circuit goes on. You shouldn't be following an electron through the path, you should be looking at what current and what voltage you have in any part of your circuit." Great! I know voltages and currents move and do things, but I still look at it as "moves from here, goes here".
At one point I learned I had been looking at amplifiers the wrong way: I originally thought that the AC was split by the power supply to positive and negative legs of DC, the whole amp was divided into a positive side and a negative side, and then those two sides were combined after the output stage to make an AC signal again. (Oddly, that actually worked in my head.) Then I saw this brilliant little animation that demonstrated how a transistor worked in an audio circuit, how the DC ran one way, but there was an AC signal in there that ran the opposite way, against the DC power that was coming in. That really helped me to understand that the amp was running off DC but the signal was going through there as AC. I had no idea! Then I lost the link to the animation so I have no idea where I should have gone next, and the stuff I learned is slowly disappearing out of my brain.
While I'm talking about it - I still don't understand AC, believe it or not. Since I'm a linear person, DC is easy: Its either there or it isn't, and it moves thataway. Put a negative sign there, and its moving the opposite direction. But AC changes back and forth, so how do you get anything done if things are going back and forth? Using the stupid waterwheel analogy, if the water flows in one direction the wheel turns, there's your current - but what if the water runs backwards? Will that waterwheel run backwards and turn flour into grain then? This isn't even touching on the whole "its not really just negative and positive, you actually have 360 degrees of phase, not 180".
I'll leave that for my doctoral thesis, I think.
And don't get me started about the little directional arrows that distinguish PNP from NPN. To my tired little brain that says "goes in here/goes out here", I can't get myself to see it any differently, and of course it doesn't mean that.
I've been studying this, on and off, for at least 6 months. Its not sinking in. How do I get past this? How did you guys get past it? You all had to start somewhere and go through the steps, so how about letting me in on your "aha!" moments.
TIA.
I have a hard time learning electronics. I have grown up around it, I have some amazing friends that are very into it, and I've tried very hard to pick it up myself. I have an above average IQ and lots of general knowledge about everything. I just have a hard time specializing. I've really worked my tail off trying to get past my study obstacles. I don't get discouraged but I do get frustrated, and my way of dealing with that is to apply humor. Hopefully people see that.
In the past few months I've been studying and seen some progress. I have the basics covered on passive components. I've learned what a voltage divider is, and how a rectifier bridge works. I can find them on a schematic, and I can also identify input and output sections on schematics if they're well organized. Those are things that I had a hard time with so I know progress is possible. I've reached sort of a plateau now, though. I know what a generic "transistor" does on its own but I can't tell you the difference between all the different types, and I lose my mind when I try to figure out what they do in the circuit. When I start reading about using a transistor to boost current vs transistors to boost voltage, my brain shuts off. I have to decompress for a while, and then go relearn the difference between current and voltage, I kid you not. And if you asked me right now to explain voltage - even though I can use a DMM and diagnose problems with a basic circuit - I have to go review it before I discuss it. You have no idea how many times I've read it over, watched waterwheel metaphor videos explaining it, and passed tests proving that I had the knowledge, only to forget it a few days or weeks later. Its not really an issue - as long as I know how to use the meter, and I can look up those explanations, I can get by. Its no different than having a calculator to do the math for circuits instead of doing it long-hand.
I think the reason why I can't move forward now is I can't get past the whole "voltage goes in here, goes out there" mindset when I study circuits. I'm a linear thinker. Things go from one place, go through some work, and end up on the other side. I know what that rectifier bridge does, and if I sit and map it out I can even explain it. But its still difficult for me to follow because there's four traces, one at each corner instead of one wire going in and one going out. So I had to learn the concept, look at it as a single device, and just pay attention to the values going in and coming out. Thats the only way I don't get stopped there every time I see one on a schematic.
Pick something exceedingly simple, like a GFA-535 (one of the simplest high-performance designs in existence) and can I try to follow it. My brain sees the signal coming in from the input, going past a handful of passives and into a transistor. But right next to it on the schematic is another transistor (making a differential pair), and there's a signal going in to it from somewhere else. Where the heck is that coming from? Its from that spaghetti mess to the right of it on the schematic. I think "why isn't the differential pair turned on its side, with all that stuff from the right now placed to the left, between the input and the pair, so that I can follow it from left to right?" And thats where I stop understanding the circuit. Now all I see are these traces that jump over each other, blend with each other, diverge from each other. Its very hard for me to follow because I keep looking at the circuit as a rollercoaster track for electrons, when I should be looking at it as a web of interconnected things that all affect each other.
But thats just the signal - what about the power that runs the whole thing? Well, thats over on the right side of the schematic. Why isn't it listed on the left side with the signal input so its easier to follow? Or put it above or below on the schematic so I'm not trying to pick the speaker outputs out of the power traces. Having the power come in the diagram on the output side seems like a restaurant kitchen: all the orders come in the same door that they go out, with the deliveries on the other side of the kitchen. Or something like that, I'm still working on the metaphor. In any case, it looks like a mess to me, while to you guys, you can follow right along. I was trying to figure out my Hafler preamp, and Maaco here said to me "start with the basics - follow the circuit". I couldn't, because there wasn't a linear path to follow.
I understand my major issue here - I look at the circuit from left to right, and follow the electron. This is completely wrong, and yet I have no idea how to get past it. Dahl tells me "don't look at it that way, the electrons are always there, they're just not moving until the circuit goes on. You shouldn't be following an electron through the path, you should be looking at what current and what voltage you have in any part of your circuit." Great! I know voltages and currents move and do things, but I still look at it as "moves from here, goes here".
At one point I learned I had been looking at amplifiers the wrong way: I originally thought that the AC was split by the power supply to positive and negative legs of DC, the whole amp was divided into a positive side and a negative side, and then those two sides were combined after the output stage to make an AC signal again. (Oddly, that actually worked in my head.) Then I saw this brilliant little animation that demonstrated how a transistor worked in an audio circuit, how the DC ran one way, but there was an AC signal in there that ran the opposite way, against the DC power that was coming in. That really helped me to understand that the amp was running off DC but the signal was going through there as AC. I had no idea! Then I lost the link to the animation so I have no idea where I should have gone next, and the stuff I learned is slowly disappearing out of my brain.
While I'm talking about it - I still don't understand AC, believe it or not. Since I'm a linear person, DC is easy: Its either there or it isn't, and it moves thataway. Put a negative sign there, and its moving the opposite direction. But AC changes back and forth, so how do you get anything done if things are going back and forth? Using the stupid waterwheel analogy, if the water flows in one direction the wheel turns, there's your current - but what if the water runs backwards? Will that waterwheel run backwards and turn flour into grain then? This isn't even touching on the whole "its not really just negative and positive, you actually have 360 degrees of phase, not 180".
I'll leave that for my doctoral thesis, I think.
And don't get me started about the little directional arrows that distinguish PNP from NPN. To my tired little brain that says "goes in here/goes out here", I can't get myself to see it any differently, and of course it doesn't mean that.
I've been studying this, on and off, for at least 6 months. Its not sinking in. How do I get past this? How did you guys get past it? You all had to start somewhere and go through the steps, so how about letting me in on your "aha!" moments.
TIA.
Think of "signal flow" (cause and effect) and not the electron flow. Usually schematics are indeed made
so that the logical signal flow is from left (input) to right (output), although this cannot always be done.
Also, usually more positive DC voltages are placed above, and more negative DC voltages are placed below,
on a schematic.
Bear in mind that much of all this is just convention, like the direction of DC current flow, which is actually
in the opposite direction of true electron flow. The little arrow on a bipolar transistor is placed on the emitter
for identification purposes, and its direction indicates the direction of positive current flow, or what is
the same, whether it is an NPN (current out of the emitter) or a PNP (current into the emitter).
Leave AC until after you understand DC and related areas. You will need significantly more math for that.
I would suggest reading the relevant parts of an older Art of Electronics book when you need clarification.
https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/02_PEARL_Arch/Vol_16/Sec_51/4420_The_Art_of_Electronics.pdf
so that the logical signal flow is from left (input) to right (output), although this cannot always be done.
Also, usually more positive DC voltages are placed above, and more negative DC voltages are placed below,
on a schematic.
Bear in mind that much of all this is just convention, like the direction of DC current flow, which is actually
in the opposite direction of true electron flow. The little arrow on a bipolar transistor is placed on the emitter
for identification purposes, and its direction indicates the direction of positive current flow, or what is
the same, whether it is an NPN (current out of the emitter) or a PNP (current into the emitter).
Leave AC until after you understand DC and related areas. You will need significantly more math for that.
I would suggest reading the relevant parts of an older Art of Electronics book when you need clarification.
https://pearl-hifi.com/06_Lit_Archive/02_PEARL_Arch/Vol_16/Sec_51/4420_The_Art_of_Electronics.pdf
Last edited:
Thats what I'm going to have to work on.
I reviewed the 535 schematic and for the output sections I see B+ on top, B- on the bottom of each of the two channels. Likewise, the bridge rectifier shows positive voltage output listed above the negative. An aha moment indeed - thank you for pointing that out!
I remember that from a book I read a few years ago when I was still in school. I brought it up to my Dad, a competent tv repairman, and he said "it doesn't matter, they're both correct". I didn't get it until I happened to see a video recently that said the electrons flow one way, but that causes the place they left to show a positive charge, so the current heads to that location. Or something like that. Another lightbulb moment. I've forgotten most of it but enough of it stuck that I don't get hung up on it anymore.
Now I just lose my mind trying to follow the circuit, never mind the direction of flow...
I think trying to learn from starting with a GFA-565 is way too fast. There is so much in such a circuit that is developed over many years and can only be fully understood over many years. Even seasoned designers will scratch there heads over it once in a while.
The age-old adage 'crawl - walk - run' still applies. Look up a circuit of a two-transistor amplifier, or a single transistor gain stage, then with an emitter follower added. Study a two-transistor stage and how feedback can be applied. If you fully understand what's going on there, you understand several parts of a GFA-565 too.
Then move to more complex circuits.
You need to put in the same 10,000 hrs as we all had.
Jan
The age-old adage 'crawl - walk - run' still applies. Look up a circuit of a two-transistor amplifier, or a single transistor gain stage, then with an emitter follower added. Study a two-transistor stage and how feedback can be applied. If you fully understand what's going on there, you understand several parts of a GFA-565 too.
Then move to more complex circuits.
You need to put in the same 10,000 hrs as we all had.
Jan
In a metal conductor, it is indeed the electrons that actually do the flowing, but it can also be
looked at the other way and still get the right answer (which is what we all actually do).
In some semiconductor devices, it is the absence of an electron (a hole) that does the flowing.
As you might imagine, the electrons flow more easily (have higher mobility) than the holes.
looked at the other way and still get the right answer (which is what we all actually do).
In some semiconductor devices, it is the absence of an electron (a hole) that does the flowing.
As you might imagine, the electrons flow more easily (have higher mobility) than the holes.
Last edited:
I'll have to work on that, because that direction thing really causes a prob for me.
Buuuuut... isn't AC half of what I need to know of what goes on in an amplifier, whether its small signal or big?
I almost dropped my cash on the updated version of TAoE, but I read the reviews where a lot of people were saying it was both overwhelming as well as useless for a beginner, and they recommended another book, the title of which I can't remember. Then I read the reviews for that book, and people complained about how worthless it was, and they should have gotten TAoE.
You cannot understand everything all at once, you have to go step by step through the basic theory,
with later concepts building upon earlier ones, like is done with: arithmetic -> algebra -> trig -> calculus, etc.
You can't understand AC until after you understand DC, and the ultimate goal comes last, not first.
The free older book linked above is just right for you. You will need significant math to get very far, though.
The newer version of it is largely for more advanced engineers and would be mostly useless and
baffling to you at present.
with later concepts building upon earlier ones, like is done with: arithmetic -> algebra -> trig -> calculus, etc.
You can't understand AC until after you understand DC, and the ultimate goal comes last, not first.
The free older book linked above is just right for you. You will need significant math to get very far, though.
The newer version of it is largely for more advanced engineers and would be mostly useless and
baffling to you at present.
Last edited:
To any subject you can find any opinion - most of them are useless. To develop an understanding of analog circuits a simulator like LTSpice may be of essential help:
You begin with a simple circuit like a single npn amplifying stage - and the you look at your simulation results.
Are they what you expected?
If not you have to find out the reason &
the learning begins!
With you simulator you have a set of powerful tools:
You can measure every voltage and every current of your circuit to see how it works. I learned electronics by playing with the circuits. So my advice is: Play intensely with your simple circuits, look into any corner: Did you understand all results?
And that is just the beginning....
You begin with a simple circuit like a single npn amplifying stage - and the you look at your simulation results.
Are they what you expected?
If not you have to find out the reason &
the learning begins!
With you simulator you have a set of powerful tools:
You can measure every voltage and every current of your circuit to see how it works. I learned electronics by playing with the circuits. So my advice is: Play intensely with your simple circuits, look into any corner: Did you understand all results?
And that is just the beginning....
Last edited:
Yeah, and my brain hurts now.
Ray I have to ask - what was your first obstacle in your electronics study? I mean, going back to when you started, what was your first roadblock?
I agree. Thats why I picked the 535.
Seriously, I couldn't really think of another popular amplifier with a simpler design.
Based on my selection of the 535 you can probably see that in my search for a simple design to study I picked a common amp which I have personal experience with. If I try to look at a simpler design it would help if there was an actual, physical representation of it. Can you recommend a commonly available, simple amp that I could buy?
I know that rule, and I'm glad to see someone else here understands it. Its a way of saying "practice makes perfect" that provides a metric that a student can work towards. The issue that I fear is: what if I get past 10,000 hours and I'm still sitting here trying to understand what a bunch of transistors do in a circuit?
A quick trip through my applications shows that I actually have had that program since last November. I completely forgot that I downloaded it.
I searched through the reference library at analog.com and couldn't find anything like what you're saying. The search term "single NPN amplifier" returned a whole page of op amp designs, which is exactly what I don't want. (You think I'm having trouble with analog audio? Wait until you put some logic gates in there! Thats when I will just take a vacation and hire someone to design stuff.)
Do you have a link to a library file there that I can use?
I always found math straightforward, so the main problem in learning was just keeping up with the coursework.
You are lucky in that you can spend as much time as is necessary at each step, and not have to go on before
understanding enough to be clear on the material. And the fundamentals are critical, so don't be impatient.
Your puzzlement about voltage, current, etc. happens when the basic physics is not understood.
That material is in most beginning physics textbooks, so take a look at one. Some elementary EE
texts cover this, as well.
Beginners can indeed skip some of the math and use simulations to develop some degree of intuition.
This is fine as far as it goes, but there is so much more you could learn that will be left on the plate.
It depends on your objectives. After 10,000 hours, you will not be back at the start, because
you have the motivation necessary to succeed. And that is the main determinant of success.
You are lucky in that you can spend as much time as is necessary at each step, and not have to go on before
understanding enough to be clear on the material. And the fundamentals are critical, so don't be impatient.
Your puzzlement about voltage, current, etc. happens when the basic physics is not understood.
That material is in most beginning physics textbooks, so take a look at one. Some elementary EE
texts cover this, as well.
Beginners can indeed skip some of the math and use simulations to develop some degree of intuition.
This is fine as far as it goes, but there is so much more you could learn that will be left on the plate.
It depends on your objectives. After 10,000 hours, you will not be back at the start, because
you have the motivation necessary to succeed. And that is the main determinant of success.
Last edited:
I believe when You enter learning those 100 leg IC's signals Your brain will explode.
Analog You can hear, but our hears don't hear digits.
I'm in the same boat as You, as we are all here.
Everyday we learn something.
You need to go from point A to point B. You can walk, drive, take the train or plane, or even use an unknown spaceship. This is where circuit topologies come in. Some work, some also work but...
Learning & experimenting is fun.
Just a small example.
I have two different speakers with the same power rating, but with the same amp at the same volume setting, one is louder than the other. Why ? Learn about SPL & Efficiency.
Analog You can hear, but our hears don't hear digits.
I'm in the same boat as You, as we are all here.
Everyday we learn something.
You need to go from point A to point B. You can walk, drive, take the train or plane, or even use an unknown spaceship. This is where circuit topologies come in. Some work, some also work but...
Learning & experimenting is fun.
Just a small example.
I have two different speakers with the same power rating, but with the same amp at the same volume setting, one is louder than the other. Why ? Learn about SPL & Efficiency.
Math? As a pro technician, I can't think of any math I needed day to day that couldn't be done on my four-function calculator. Basically arithmetic. You can look further like calculating frequency of an LC or RC circuit or some such, and we get into PI and square roots.
A million analogies come up, here is one: A horse pulling a chariot (or stagecoach if you prefer), how fast he runs is voltage. How many more horses on either side of him joining in is current.
"Electron flow" versus"conventional current". Y'know, don't worry about it. They both describe the same thing but go opposite directions. I tend to think in terms of conventional current, because then the arrows on diodes and transistors face the right way, and ground is the ultimate destination of everything. Oh my, but then vacuum tubes are "backwards".
I shouldn't say this now, because it may confuse, but electrons don't flow THROUGH the amp - like an electron going in one end doesn't pop out the other a second later. CURRENT flows. You know those executive desk toys where a line of steel balls hanging on strings will clack back and forth? Pull and end ball away and let go, and when it hits the rest, one pops out the other end. The balls themselves do not travel end to end, but the "signal" does, that is how current works.
A million analogies come up, here is one: A horse pulling a chariot (or stagecoach if you prefer), how fast he runs is voltage. How many more horses on either side of him joining in is current.
"Electron flow" versus"conventional current". Y'know, don't worry about it. They both describe the same thing but go opposite directions. I tend to think in terms of conventional current, because then the arrows on diodes and transistors face the right way, and ground is the ultimate destination of everything. Oh my, but then vacuum tubes are "backwards".
I shouldn't say this now, because it may confuse, but electrons don't flow THROUGH the amp - like an electron going in one end doesn't pop out the other a second later. CURRENT flows. You know those executive desk toys where a line of steel balls hanging on strings will clack back and forth? Pull and end ball away and let go, and when it hits the rest, one pops out the other end. The balls themselves do not travel end to end, but the "signal" does, that is how current works.
Ok, now I see where your problem lies.
I suggest you get a solid knowledge of the foundations, before you fly higher, it ends up being the shortest approach, believe it or not.
Lots of people , specially Musicians, ask me "I´d like to study Electronics, build and mod or design amplifiers, etc., what should I do? Do you recommend any special book or course?"
And they are somewhat baffled when I suggest: "yes, of course, start by studying Physics"
Electronics is just a branch of Physics and follows its Laws, period.
Can´t suggest specific USA available books or authors but best is to visit some local Library, maybe a School´s library, and get some **old** Physics book (old as in 40´s to 60´s, or even earlier
) , read the chapters dedicated to "Electricity and Magnetism"But ... but ... but .... I want Electronics!!!!!
Ok, those old book chapters will teach you all about, in no particular order: voltage - current - electron - conductor - insulator - switch - resistance -power - battery - resistor - inductance - transformer - inductor - Ohm´s Law - Kirchhoff Laws - Faraday cage (shielding) - motor - generator - galvanometer (needle meter) - electrostatics - bridge - potentiometer (which is originally a Physics Lab measuring instrument, not just the thingie you see on amplifiers) - and so on and on and on and on.
Once you are comfortable with those building blocks , then everything starts making sense.
A potentiometer?: a variable resistor.
A power supply?:a fancy way to replace a battery.
A diode?: conductor one way, insulator the other way.
A tube?: a "perfect insulator" (two metal pieces in vacuum, **the** perfect insulator by definition) where by a very clever trick you manage to pass current through
and not only that, you can *control* it the way you like adding a third piece of metal, which controls flow *electrostatically* Starts to make sense?
You´ll learn Electronics not by heart, overloading your brain with a million facts but applying Logic and a few universal rules.
Just one more example:
"Transistor" .... would you believe it´s just shorthand for TRANSference reSISTOR? .... which will make perfect sense in due time.
Why an old book?
Because way back then Physics was *experiment* based, old Labs were full of Frankenstein Lab type devices, and you would "see" things happen.
And in general they used basic math.
Later it became way more sofisticated as far as Math is concerned, more things can be predicted, or calculated with greater precision, but in my view some of the old "hands on" magic was lost.
As a side benefit, knowing and applying basic/universal Physics Laws, you will be "vaccinated" against Snake Oil claims.
You´ll read some wild claim, check what it applies to and say "NO WAY!!!!!"
"But ... but ... but ... so and so who is a respected Audiophile says it´s true"
SO WHAT? Physics Laws are SOLID and CONSISTENT and let you predict how stuff will work.
Later
+1 for focusing on signal flow rather than current/electron flow.
Also, learn the various sub-circuits. You mentioned a differential pair, so you're probably doing that already. Once you understand how the various puzzle pieces work, you can start putting them together.
Take classes on the subject. It's very inefficient to learn by self-study.
Or buy a handful of various devices (resistors, transistors of various types, capacitors, etc.) and make an LED light up using an NPN, PNP, NMOS, and PMOS. Build a single-transistor amplifier stage.
Tom
Also, learn the various sub-circuits. You mentioned a differential pair, so you're probably doing that already. Once you understand how the various puzzle pieces work, you can start putting them together.
Take classes on the subject. It's very inefficient to learn by self-study.
Or buy a handful of various devices (resistors, transistors of various types, capacitors, etc.) and make an LED light up using an NPN, PNP, NMOS, and PMOS. Build a single-transistor amplifier stage.
Tom
Hi Maaco, thank you for stopping by, and I appreciate your help with the Hafler last year. You're right about the fun part. Its great when things work. Somewhere around here I have one of those ancient Radio Shack "Learning Electronics" breadboard kits I picked up for cheap. I may just take a week and poke through that, and possibly hitting it from another angle will help.
You might look at me sideways for saying this, but for some reason speaker response comes to me extremely easily. At some point in my early education I found that water and air are the same thing from a physics standpoint and I then learned about resonance and harmonics. I learned the q and Vas formulas and it all fit in my head. At a certain point I used to just look at the driver specs and I knew what size cabinet it needed, and if I was going to use a port I'd have that worked out in my head too.
I think this is probably one big reason I get so knotted up over my lack of progress with electronics. Why isn't this easy?
I suggest: "yes, of course, start by studying Physics"
Electronics is just a branch of Physics and follows its Laws, period.
That make sense. And both Nelson Pass and Bob Carver were physicists first, audio engineers second.
Can´t suggest specific USA available books or authors but best is to visit some local Library, maybe a School´s library, and get some **old** Physics book (old as in 40´s to 60´s, or even earlier
Dad gave me all his books, so I have stuff going back all the way to Tesla, I'm sure I'd be able to find something like that here. I'll check it out.
Oddly, I recall that bit about the potentiometer. It was a physical representation of voltage potential? Kind of like an anemometer but for juice.
Sadly, I must be missing something. I learned nearly everything you listed up there, tested out with passing grades, and then when I got to transistors my brain fell flat on its squiggly grayish pink face.
A potentiometer?: a variable resistor.
A power supply?:a fancy way to replace a battery.
A diode?: conductor one way, insulator the other way.
A tube?: a "perfect insulator" (two metal pieces in vacuum, **the** perfect insulator by definition) where by a very clever trick you manage to pass current through
Starts to make sense?
You´ll learn Electronics not by heart, overloading your brain with a million facts but applying Logic and a few universal rules.
Just one more example:
"Transistor" .... would you believe it´s just shorthand for TRANSference reSISTOR? .... which will make perfect sense in due time.
Like I mentioned in my earlier post, I'm good with passive concepts, its the transistor and how to apply it in a circuit that causes my brain to... short-circuit?
So I understand all of the above parts with the exception of the vacuum tube. I find them fascinating, and something in me tells me to get a Tube Doctor kit and learn how things worked before solid state. I'm tempted.
I agree and I find discussions of the old "Lahborahtree" physicist-experimenters to be engrossing. Could you imagine what Tesla could have done with an extra 50 years of life? LTSpice isn't as good as what that guy had in his head. With nothing more than the materials available to him in 1910, he developed an oscillator that could shake the city for blocks around, even though it wasn't much bigger than a breadbox. How? The man understood one thing better than anyone who has ever lived: resonance. That idea has always fascinated me. He'd have come up with one heck of a hifi system, I bet. Probably would have used earth resonance and planar speakers to come up with a diffuse signal that offered proper imaging no matter where you stood within the reproduction area.
And if you can't tell, Tesla is the main reason I became interested in studying electronics.
Soooo true.
A few years working in a hifi store will also go a long way towards galvanizing a person against snake oil. I'm ok with TipToes on turntables, but when I see people putting pillows under their cables to get them off the ground...
When I first started, there was an "audio consultant" who told people that there was a difference between the sound of an amplifier painted white and one painted black. What was worse was they said that to a reporter for the local paper. Business was never the same after that.
Maybe this would be helpful, if acoustics seems easier than electronics right now.
See the book's page 20 for a start.
http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/Atwood/Olson 1943 Dynamical Analogies.pdf
Also some beginning tube books will be more intuitive than bipolar transistors.
http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/crowhurst_basic_2.pdf
Or maybe op amps will be easier.
https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/Op-Amp-Applications/Section1.pdf
See the book's page 20 for a start.
http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/Atwood/Olson 1943 Dynamical Analogies.pdf
Also some beginning tube books will be more intuitive than bipolar transistors.
http://www.tubebooks.org/Books/crowhurst_basic_2.pdf
Or maybe op amps will be easier.
https://www.analog.com/media/en/training-seminars/design-handbooks/Op-Amp-Applications/Section1.pdf
Last edited:
You're right. A year ago I would look at a schematic and all I could do would be to call out the components based on the symbols. Six months ago I could point out the bridge rectifier and look at it as a sub-system. Shortly after I learned about voltage dividers and I could point out every one of them on the design. Now I can spot a differential pair, Darlingtons, and push-pulls. However, spotting them is one thing - I have no doggone idea how all of the traces and resistors and capacitors around them are contributing to whats going on, especially when everything seems to be connected to everything else. I'm only half-kidding when I say that everything in between the differential pair and the outputs looks like a Portuguese man o'war having a seizure. And the emitter arrows on the transistors do not help, not one bit. When I look at the push-pull pair and an NPN emitter leads to the collector on the adjacent NPN, which has its own emitter with an arrow pointing out, my mind immediately follows the arrows like their some kind of one-way sign on the most confusing road since that time I went through Mobile, Alabama during spring break and everything was under construction.
Sometimes I have to be on my own. I think if I was in a classroom now my frustration would get the best of me and I'd get ejected for flinging books and flipping over tables. At least here at home I can throw things out the window without getting in trouble.
I have thought about taking classes, and I checked into it before I started self-study. Its basically impossible here. All of the vocational schools were taken over by the county governments and unified under some state program a few years back. I can't just walk in and say "I'd like to take DC Electronics" now. They treat everyone - even adults who come in to audit courses - like 13th graders. They want background checks, placement exams, and counselors involved. Last I checked they wanted photo ID on lanyards as well as color-coded garments matched to your approved educational program. Even though I mention auditing classes, I don't know if that is even allowed anymore; I saw nothing in the online info that allowed it - they want people in programs. That is just a little bit over the top for taking some simple vocational skills classes.
The friends that I had who were experts in the business have all moved away, and Dad can't teach anymore. The only thing I could think about doing would be hiring a private tutor and I wouldn't even begin to know where to start with that.
Your last idea seems to be the most accessible right now. I have that Radio Shack kit gathering dust. I can make use of that.
Thanks Tom.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.