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Can you hear a difference between 2 solid state preamps?
Can you hear a difference between 2 solid state preamps?
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View Poll Results: Can you hear a difference between the two test files
I can hear a difference, but have no ABX result 12 50.00%
I cannot hear a difference and have no ABX result 6 25.00%
I can hear a difference and have an ABX result 4 16.67%
I cannot hear a difference and have an ABX result 2 8.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2nd December 2019, 06:16 PM   #341
billshurv is online now billshurv  United Kingdom
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Can you hear a difference between 2 solid state preamps?
As I have pointed out, I have not had a chance to listen to them on 'my system' however poor you might consider it to be. Tests were done at lunch break on a cheap ebay USB dac/hpa combo driving Etymotic ER4s hence my personal disbelief.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 06:58 PM   #342
mmerrill99 is offline mmerrill99
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Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
How often are sound files, measurements and schematics included with listening impressions in order for it to be fully open to participation? .......
There's a certain truth about that but maybe some things need to be pointed out, too?
Between 20Hz & 20KHz:
- there is a difference in noise level -100dB Vs 110dB
- there is a difference in risetime 2.92uS Vs 0.342uS

I agree this is interesting & would love to investigate further whether either, both or something else is responsible for the sound differences heard.

Are these measurements relevant to audibility?
- Can the noise difference down @ 100dB make any audible difference to playback of music files with significantly higher noise floor?
- can risetime differences 0.342uS Vs 2.92uS be audible - I'm not sure if there is sufficient research in risetime - remember this isn't ITD (Interaural time differences) i.e between ears, although this risetime may well have a part to play in ITD.

These are the issues I'm most interested in (& I'm playing devil's advocate here to some extent)

PS.it also makes me wonder how much the 'story' behind reported audibility is of importance to the reception given to such differences i.e "If someone claims night and day differences with some random component rolling or having paid someone to empty the kitty litter into their DAC with no before or after measurements then they are fair game in the lounge IMO."

Last edited by mmerrill99; 2nd December 2019 at 07:05 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 07:09 PM   #343
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
Happy to let you hear for yourself if and when you get around to visiting Northern California.
If I came and did not hear would that be OK? I only say this because that has been my experience on several occasions. Not difference only here but preference also.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:00 PM   #344
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
If I came and did not hear would that be OK?
Absolutely okay. We all hear differently.

For my brother and myself, we struggle against a type of 'tone deafness,' in our case the ability to know if small pitch intervals are higher or lower than adjacent pitches. We can tell they are different though. Also, we find it gets a little easier with regular practice.

Wouldn't be surprised if some of the people who are convinced CD audio is far more than good enough happen to find it difficult to discern small changes in, say, distortion, or details. However, don't really know. You might be an interesting test subject, the first one not hearing much or any difference with our AK4499

Last edited by Markw4; 2nd December 2019 at 08:08 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:29 PM   #345
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Originally Posted by mmerrill99 View Post

I agree this is interesting & would love to investigate further whether either, both or something else is responsible for the sound differences heard.
Go for it. It was suggested the differing transfer functions could be audible even through not very revealing systems. Some impressions could indicate this, the sibilance of vocals perhaps?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:50 PM   #346
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Pity I could not put the BT into the test
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Old 2nd December 2019, 09:19 PM   #347
mmerrill99 is offline mmerrill99
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Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
Go for it. It was suggested the differing transfer functions could be audible even through not very revealing systems. Some impressions could indicate this, the sibilance of vocals perhaps?
Before looking at the "how" (transfer function) does it not make sense to try understand the "what" - what is it in the analogue output that our auditory perception is discerning as different? So far, are there only two main differences between the output waveforms produced by these preamps or are there other, less significant - I've seen phase differences mentioned?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 09:20 PM   #348
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
For my brother and myself, we struggle against a type of 'tone deafness,' in our case the ability to know if small pitch intervals are higher or lower than adjacent pitches. We can tell they are different though. Also, we find it gets a little easier with regular practice.
)
I'd beware if I was you, you may end up being able to hear comb filtering
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Old 2nd December 2019, 10:48 PM   #349
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Originally Posted by mmerrill99 View Post
I've seen phase differences mentioned?
Yes, the transfer function
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Old 3rd December 2019, 12:14 AM   #350
mmerrill99 is offline mmerrill99
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Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
Yes, the transfer function
Cute but doesn't do anything to advance the discussion , as usual
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