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Can you hear a difference between 2 solid state preamps?
Can you hear a difference between 2 solid state preamps?
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View Poll Results: Can you hear a difference between the two test files
I can hear a difference, but have no ABX result 12 50.00%
I cannot hear a difference and have no ABX result 6 25.00%
I can hear a difference and have an ABX result 4 16.67%
I cannot hear a difference and have an ABX result 2 8.33%
Voters: 24. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 8th November 2019, 12:05 PM   #91
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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These new files
http://pmacura.cz/claire.zip

not only that they have very different technical quality compared to the vintage 1953 Sinatra WS recordings, but I also changed the DAC for the one that has also balanced output. THD vs. amplitude record of the complete DAC - ADC loop with preamps #1 and #2 inserted is attached, same level settings as used for Claire sample recordings. Now we can see both lower noise and distortion with #1 preamp. Frequency response and rise time remains unchanged.

P.S.: I am proud () how well matched are the levels in claire1-3 samples, taking into account that all setting is made only by an analog pot without digital level equalization.
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File Type: png pre1and2_thdamp.png (63.6 KB, 112 views)

Last edited by PMA; 8th November 2019 at 12:10 PM.
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Old 8th November 2019, 12:24 PM   #92
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnego View Post
I'm guessing that Dan didn't listen to the samples through headphone. I think I have mentioned to him to change his amplifier.
At some point I will listen through my stereo, see if it has a smoothing effect.
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Old 8th November 2019, 12:25 PM   #93
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6L6 View Post
Clearly different in initial impressions.

I wish I had ABX to see if there was a consistently recognizable difference.

Also found the recording to be a curious choice for a 'technical' comparison, but I must admit I enjoy the music very much.
Do you have a preference?
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Old 8th November 2019, 01:55 PM   #94
Jakob2 is offline Jakob2  Germany
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@PMA,

if you would use the newer Foobar version, then in the trial logs the erroneous conclusion "probability that you were guessing" would be exchanged for the correct one "probability to get your result by random guessing" .

Of course you could do the edit each time yourself, but it is more tiresome and might be forgotten sometimes...
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:22 PM   #95
Soldermizer is offline Soldermizer  United States
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Has anyone here (or indeed, anywhere) ever tried the null test as suggested by Winer ("The Audio Expert" book) and others? This would seem a much easier test to do compared to anything involving human listening. I don't have the equipment or knowledge to do the test. I do, however, know about the unreliability of human perception and the result that 99% of equipment differences heard are complete and utter bull---t
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Last edited by Soldermizer; 8th November 2019 at 02:23 PM. Reason: Added leters to censored word
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:25 PM   #96
edbarx is offline edbarx  Malta
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The problem with this question, is the inherent assumption, that playback of these audio files, does not add anything of its own. To answer this question objectively, playback, amplification and electronic current to sound conversion must be of exceptionally high quality. Moreover, there is also the issue of the human listener. Can the latter, be assumed to have an absolutely balanced and accurate sound perception?
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Old 8th November 2019, 02:59 PM   #97
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
@PMA,

if you would use the newer Foobar version, then in the trial logs the erroneous conclusion "probability that you were guessing" would be exchanged for the correct one "probability to get your result by random guessing" .

Of course you could do the edit each time yourself, but it is more tiresome and might be forgotten sometimes...
Thank you, I will check it. I was re-installing the ABX plugin recently, so it is an interesting news.
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:05 PM   #98
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soldermizer View Post
Has anyone here (or indeed, anywhere) ever tried the null test as suggested by Winer ("The Audio Expert" book) and others? This would seem a much easier test to do compared to anything involving human listening. I don't have the equipment or knowledge to do the test. I do, however, know about the unreliability of human perception and the result that 99% of equipment differences heard are complete and utter bull---t
Quote:
Originally Posted by edbarx View Post
The problem with this question, is the inherent assumption, that playback of these audio files, does not add anything of its own. To answer this question objectively, playback, amplification and electronic current to sound conversion must be of exceptionally high quality. Moreover, there is also the issue of the human listener. Can the latter, be assumed to have an absolutely balanced and accurate sound perception?
Yes, the null test was tried. And also I made several tests against original data, without loops or anything inserted, they can be searched in "Everything Else" forum.

In this current test, I am rather interested in listeners subjective opinion on sound differences of the samples (and I am not going to criticise it) rather than insisting on ABX results, as I do in other tests. Of course any ABX protocol is appreciated, but not necessarily requested now.
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:50 PM   #99
mountainman bob is offline mountainman bob  United States
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I applaud your interest in the actual sound/perception........if people can be taught how to listen then maybe some schooling is in order.

I suppose live sound engineering or recording engineering would hit on that mark?

Edit.....I wonder if local tech or community colleges offer introductory courses in such things.....or maybe even online?

Last edited by mountainman bob; 8th November 2019 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 8th November 2019, 03:58 PM   #100
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
Of course you could do the edit each time yourself, but it is more tiresome and might be forgotten sometimes...
It is impossible, because when you change the txt protocol, the signature check tool

foobar2000 ABX Log Signature Tool

will announce that the signature is invalid. It is a good tool to reduce cheating.
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