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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
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View Poll Results: Which file is the original and which do you prefer
Apricot is the original file 7 46.67%
Avocado is the original file 5 33.33%
I prefer Apricot by listening 7 46.67%
I prefer Avocado by listening 7 46.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Yesterday, 09:32 PM   #621
TNT is online now TNT  Sweden
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First I could not do this either and was really confused. Then I picked up on used level. I was playing it to loud. Then it was easy.

//
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File Type: png sine.png (207.0 KB, 26 views)
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Old Yesterday, 09:36 PM   #622
TNT is online now TNT  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KSTR View Post
People might try this one first. It's a 70Hz sine with 100% H2. Actually, it's a slightly stretched harmonic that is at 140.5Hz, not 140.0Hz. The 0.5Hz offset gives a 2 seconds repetition rate of the phase of the harmonic slowly and continuosly rotating through 360. So, regardless of the speaker's phase response there will always a section of that loop where the harmonic is in-phase and another where it is exactly out-of-phase.
If we were insensitive to phase shift (actually, to the waveform changes introduced by that) the whole thing would sound excatly the same all the time no matter what the phase relation is, but.... well, listen for yourself...
Yes- I can hear a variation.

//
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Old Yesterday, 10:23 PM   #623
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmerrill99 View Post
There has been a realization in psychoacoustic research that test signals need to be more realistic & complex rather than the simplistic tones used in the past
Perhaps we could use actual music samples in the tests?
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Old Yesterday, 10:28 PM   #624
mmerrill99 is online now mmerrill99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
Perhaps we could use actual music samples in the tests?
That's difficult as most experiments are examining a single dimension & there are a lot of dynamic multi-dimensional changes in music - difficult to account for these variables in analyzing results - it's pretty mach the same for technical measurements, music is almost never used as test signal
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Old Yesterday, 10:38 PM   #625
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Originally Posted by TNT View Post
Yes- I can hear a variation.

//
Me too, just, on headphones. I confidently conclude that if it was 1% I wouldn't.
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Old Yesterday, 10:42 PM   #626
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
I confidently conclude that if it was 1% I wouldn't.
And that is the point. We cannot compare incomparable.
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Old Yesterday, 11:14 PM   #627
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmerrill99 View Post
- it's pretty mach the same for technical measurements, music is almost never used as test signal
It was used here, but you would not call this test technical. I have certainly used it to measure if a stream is bit perfect and also to measure the frequency response of the signal chain and of loudspeakers.

Admittedly more difficult with distortion effects. But IIRC AP can now do it. (I'd have to confirm that)
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Old Yesterday, 11:53 PM   #628
mmerrill99 is online now mmerrill99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
It was used here, but you would not call this test technical.
Isn't that one of the points being made by Jakob & I - multidimensional perceptual testing (music) is very difficult to get right - why do you think that a sine wav signal is more effective for some forms of audibility testing (ABX, spot the difference testing) rather than music signal? It's not just down to the possibility of masking - it's got to do with the workings of auditory perception - we only need to focus on a single static sound with no other sounds confusing or perception & we are not trying to focus on a single sound within a soundscape of dynamically changing sounds
Quote:
I have certainly used it to measure if a stream is bit perfect and also to measure the frequency response of the signal chain and of loudspeakers.
Yep, there are some specific circumstances/tests that can use music signals but do you test speaker freq response with a real music signal?

Quote:
Admittedly more difficult with distortion effects. But IIRC AP can now do it. (I'd have to confirm that)
Interested to hear about the AP tests using music - certainly multitone signals but that's not music

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Old Today, 12:36 AM   #629
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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
Quote:
Originally Posted by mmerrill99 View Post
Isn't that one of the points being made by Jakob & I (sic) - multidimensional perceptual testing (music) is very difficult to get right
If that's one of your points, then you've missed the whole point of the tests in this thread. But that's been said before.

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do you test speaker freq response with a real music signal?
I have. And DACs, preamps, line amps, valve amps, crossovers. It's more labor intensive than using sine sweeps or noise, but acts as a sort of sanity check and verification. You know, for all those people who say things like "tests signals aren't the same as real music."
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Old Today, 12:45 AM   #630
mmerrill99 is online now mmerrill99
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Originally Posted by Pano View Post
If that's one of your points, then you've missed the whole point of the tests in this thread. But that's been said before.
A great example of irony - you try to accuse me of exactly what you demonstrate by this comment
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