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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
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View Poll Results: Which file is the original and which do you prefer
Apricot is the original file 7 46.67%
Avocado is the original file 5 33.33%
I prefer Apricot by listening 7 46.67%
I prefer Avocado by listening 7 46.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 6th December 2018, 01:34 PM   #461
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post

How did you manage to hear a difference in the fruit files?
When the bass starts to play, I hear more "solid" tone from Avocado.
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Old 6th December 2018, 01:36 PM   #462
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
That's what I hear - or so I think. But I can never get it in ABX.
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Old 6th December 2018, 02:46 PM   #463
scott wurcer is offline scott wurcer  United States
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Originally Posted by Jakob2 View Post
Im not sure why you bring up "sighted listening" in this context. Care to explain?
It should get equal critical time. In fact I read far more of it in the "forums", far more.
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Old 6th December 2018, 03:17 PM   #464
turk 182 is offline turk 182  Canada
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Pano i could differentiate the fruit files and that as we know was on flawed gear.

the old school studio practice of listening on a "bad" speaker for mono sum and tonal change serves to hone one's listening skills (i miss my Auratone 5c's) and the way it was explained to me years ago by a studio engineer was purposefully listening through a speaker that's not flat( i term it "non linear" but i've been told that's incorrect) serves to either exaggerate differences or homogenize them, can't say it's factually correct but i know it works!
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:31 PM   #465
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
Yep, I was hoping to do the same with cheap earbuds or laptop speakers. Didn't work for me.

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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
It should get equal critical time. In fact I read far more of it in the "forums", far more.
Exactly.
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:38 PM   #466
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Quote:
It should get equal critical time.
Agreed. Sighted listening is good for finding small differences, however it may easily get biased and we need tons of self-control not to be beaten by our own biases. DBT is a good feedback for ourselves. And ABX as well. I definitely spend more time with "sighted" listening, but need blind testing not to fool myself.
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:52 PM   #467
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
Yes. And that's something I've learned from blind testing, to be more honest with my sighted tests. Being honest with myself - do I really hear a difference, or do I just imagine it?
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Old 6th December 2018, 04:58 PM   #468
mmerrill99 is offline mmerrill99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
That's what I hear - or so I think. But I can never get it in ABX.
And that is the point.

Let's step back a bit from the assumption that ABX is the reality & our other listening is full of bias & misleading us. Why do we think that? Have we proven to ourselves that ABX is actually showing us what is truly audible or is it interfering with our facility to differentiate differences? For our own ABX tests, what controls do we have inside the ABX test that shows us this is the case?

Without such internal checks on the test itself, we are making all kinds of unwarranted assumptions about its validity.

I know this is a sticky area but the Sine wav signals posted by PMA must give people some indication of this factor at play? And this sine wav test is just a single dimensional difference as Jakob2 has pointed out & what we are doing on a ABX test of music is a multidimensional test.

I maintain that unless you can reliably spot the difference multiple times in sighted listening by isolating a specific factor in the sample (like the bass attack) then you are almost 100% doomed to a null result in ABX blind. testing. This takes lots of training to isolate one specific sound element from the sample that is different (lots of trial & error) & when you have achieved this then doing the blind test is just an assurance. The training is not just to be able to spot this specific sound difference but to be able to maintain focus/concentration on 16 or more trials of an ABX test

@ Scott Wurcer - sighted listening is de facto considered unreliable so how would a protocol improve this? Are you saying some protocol would change your mind about its validity?

Theer are very few people that can
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Old 6th December 2018, 05:28 PM   #469
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmerrill99
Let's step back a bit from the assumption that ABX is the reality & our other listening is full of bias & misleading us.
You misunderstand. Blind is the reality; ABX is merely one example of that.

Quote:
Why do we think that?
It is known that sighted tests can cause people to hear differences which do not exist. Therefore they are not reliable.

However, as you say, there may be a role for sighted tests to possibly identify things which then need to be confirmed (or not) in blind tests.
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Old 6th December 2018, 05:30 PM   #470
turk 182 is offline turk 182  Canada
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why multiple times? when it comes to comparisons between two things are we not looking for things easily obvious/different, as in easily detectable right out of the gate? the more rounds you have to go the more the odds increase for mistakes and attention span/focus being lost?

Last edited by turk 182; 6th December 2018 at 05:37 PM.
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