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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
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View Poll Results: Which file is the original and which do you prefer
Apricot is the original file 7 46.67%
Avocado is the original file 5 33.33%
I prefer Apricot by listening 7 46.67%
I prefer Avocado by listening 7 46.67%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 21st November 2018, 06:11 AM   #11
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Thanks again for your kind words, George.

This is the test setup used for recording of the "tube amp file" that is compared to the original rip in this test. The amp is loaded by my regular speakers.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1449-1.JPG (383.3 KB, 245 views)
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Old 21st November 2018, 06:34 AM   #12
indra1 is online now indra1  Indonesia
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I would like to participate once my flu clears up. In the mean time, since the tube mu stage is inverting, could you clarify whether both files are of the same phase or one is inverted? If both files are of the same phase, could you describe where you put the second inverting stage. Thank you.
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Old 21st November 2018, 06:58 AM   #13
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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Hello indra1, thank you for your question. Both files have the same phase (and are time aligned, except for small time shift in microseconds in the amp channel). A/D input is balanced, so I made the phase inversion for the amp recording just by swapping +IN and -IN wires at the input XLR connector.
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:04 AM   #14
jan.didden is online now jan.didden  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TNT View Post
Using ABX23 / Lacinato 2.37 on Mac and I could quite fast identify a preference while playing the version sighted. I prefer Apricot and I think that Avocade is the "tobes"

My very quick run ended like:

Completed trials: 15
Number correct: 8 (53.333336%)
Confidence that your results are better than chance: 0.5

Last played: A

Individual test results [choice/actual] from among 2 possible files:
Test #1 [ A / B ]
Test #2 [ A / B ]
Test #3 [ A / A ]
Test #4 [ B / A ]
Test #5 [ A / A ]
Test #6 [ A / B ]
Test #7 [ A / B ]
Test #8 [ A / B ]
Test #9 [ B / A ]
Test #10 [ B / B ]
Test #11 [ B / B ]
Test #12 [ A / A ]
Test #13 [ B / B ]
Test #14 [ B / B ]
Test #15 [ A / A ]

But I felt I got the hang of it better at the end and this seem to have been the case.

I belive in ABX. I think it will serve a result that could guide me. The difference between the files where not in my opinion great and I could live with both SQ in some sense but still, I didn't care for the soft/muddy base in Avocado.

//
TNT, are we understanding this the same way? 8 correct out of 15 is not better than chance, and would mean that you can't hear a difference.

Jan
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:22 AM   #15
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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This is my result in "brief" listening, just one test of one (no more trials). I will try again

Code:
foo_abx 2.0.2 report
foobar2000 v1.3.7
2018-11-21 09:14:55

File A: apricot.wav
SHA1: 366faaef08134ef83262c95ee8a5ccbdeedb7395
File B: avocado.wav
SHA1: b404fd5526030ace6f56bead6dd1f780cab0a533

Output:
WASAPI (event) : OUT (DUO-CAPTURE EX), 24-bit
Crossfading: NO

09:14:55 : Test started.
09:16:13 : 00/01
09:16:26 : 00/02
09:16:38 : 01/03
09:16:48 : 02/04
09:16:59 : 02/05
09:17:08 : 02/06
09:17:19 : 02/07
09:17:27 : 03/08
09:17:39 : 03/09
09:17:51 : 04/10
09:18:01 : 05/11
09:18:12 : 05/12
09:18:22 : 06/13
09:18:58 : 07/14
09:19:07 : 08/15
09:19:16 : 09/16
09:19:16 : Test finished.

 ---------- 
Total: 9/16
Probability that you were guessing: 40.2%

 -- signature -- 
2221ad1a5108d55c51f22159f1a36313ab4808f2
So, same as TNT, my score was 8/15 before I hit 9/16
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Last edited by PMA; 21st November 2018 at 07:29 AM.
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Old 21st November 2018, 07:30 AM   #16
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Can you tell original file from tube amp record? - test
Quote:
Originally Posted by indra1 View Post
I would like to participate once my flu clears up. In the mean time, since the tube mu stage is inverting, could you clarify whether both files are of the same phase or one is inverted? If both files are of the same phase, could you describe where you put the second inverting stage. Thank you.
Hi Indrawan
The content of the two files is of the same polarity (I've checked it)

George
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Old 21st November 2018, 08:12 AM   #17
indra1 is online now indra1  Indonesia
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OK, got it, thanks.
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Old 21st November 2018, 08:24 AM   #18
TNT is offline TNT  Sweden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jan.didden View Post
TNT, are we understanding this the same way? 8 correct out of 15 is not better than chance, and would mean that you can't hear a difference.

Jan
Thats how it turned out - yes.

I think I could do better - maybe I will try. Apparently I just couldn't "wing it".. But I did want to succeed - who wouldn't like to claim "golden ear"

//
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Last edited by TNT; 21st November 2018 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 21st November 2018, 12:07 PM   #19
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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I am getting better

Code:
foo_abx 2.0.2 report
foobar2000 v1.3.7
2018-11-21 14:00:10

File A: apricot.wav
SHA1: 366faaef08134ef83262c95ee8a5ccbdeedb7395
File B: avocado.wav
SHA1: b404fd5526030ace6f56bead6dd1f780cab0a533

Output:
WASAPI (event) : OUT (DUO-CAPTURE EX), 24-bit
Crossfading: NO

14:00:10 : Test started.
14:02:02 : 01/01
14:02:16 : 01/02
14:02:26 : 02/03
14:02:36 : 03/04
14:02:45 : 04/05
14:02:53 : 04/06
14:03:05 : 05/07
14:03:19 : 05/08
14:03:31 : 06/09
14:03:43 : 06/10
14:03:52 : 07/11
14:04:01 : 08/12
14:04:14 : 09/13
14:04:27 : 10/14
14:04:45 : 10/15
14:04:55 : 11/16
14:04:55 : Test finished.

 ---------- 
Total: 11/16
Probability that you were guessing: 10.5%

 -- signature -- 
319534ee2037ab2caae98e66f0ed5721db5b9f10
Yes it is the bass sound that seems to make a difference.
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Old 21st November 2018, 12:21 PM   #20
PMA is offline PMA  Europe
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I think it might be interesting to show what is this hybrid power amplifier bringing into the recording chain:

- frequency response, there is a -2dB decrease at 20kHz
- distortion vs. amplitude from 1mV to 5.5V (fits to rec level) at 1kHz is shown
- distortion vs. frequency is shown, which is pretty flat
- output impedance is 0.23 ohm, not very low but not very high
- SNR for the FS recording level is -90dB(A)
Attached Images
File Type: png hybrid_pma_freqresp2.png (38.5 KB, 226 views)
File Type: png hybrid_pma_thdamp.png (47.9 KB, 218 views)
File Type: png hybrid_pma_thdfreq.png (32.7 KB, 216 views)
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