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Negative feedback - right or wrong to use?
Negative feedback - right or wrong to use?
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Old 2nd December 2017, 06:28 PM   #21
DF96 is offline DF96  England
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelandjelo
Things are simple.
When things are not understood people generally adopt one of two positions:
1. this is too complicated (for me to understand)
2. this is so simple (because I don't grasp the complications)

Most speakers are designed for voltage drive. The only reliable way to provide low distortion voltage drive is to use feedback. If that does not answer your question then you may be asking the wrong question.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 10:57 PM   #22
Mikelandjelo is offline Mikelandjelo  Serbia
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When something is pulled out of the concept that can be commented like this.Let me save you time and energy..... i will not go this way and discuss further what you said no matter will you or what you will say further.Every speaker can be voltage and curent driven and you are wrong.I will not comment further becouse you show how simple you understand what you said.

I asked simple question and i got my answer.There is feedback in vinyl cutting.What i didnt find is how that feedback is implemented and used in cutting.If you cut something and have feedback no matter what that feedback is you cant correct whats cut already.So feedback can be only reproduced signal or some info of how deep the cut is......but it cant correct the cut.Right?

Last edited by Mikelandjelo; 2nd December 2017 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2017, 11:25 PM   #23
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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In all forms of feedback the correction is applied as soon as any error is detected (almost instantaneously) this way the error (distortion) is kept very small
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Old 3rd December 2017, 12:02 AM   #24
Mikelandjelo is offline Mikelandjelo  Serbia
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Exactly.If we have cutter we can have feedback of signal thats driving cutting but for cutter it self and its cutting we cant.Make me wrong about this if possible.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 12:36 AM   #25
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Feedback can be mechanical too
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Old 3rd December 2017, 01:03 AM   #26
bwaslo is offline bwaslo  United States
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Negative feedback - right or wrong to use?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelandjelo View Post
When vinyl is recorded is there any feedback used?
Yes, but it includes also the cutting head within the loop -- lots of resonances to overcome.
Handbook of Recording Engineering - John Eargle - Google Books
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Old 3rd December 2017, 02:05 AM   #27
peteki is offline peteki  Australia
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People who built or still use Williamson amplifiers that are push pull and have negative feedback would extol the virtues of both. Like most things there are limits as to how much feedback is beneficial before phase shift causes oscillation. The idea of feedback in amplifiers predates WW2.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 04:16 PM   #28
Mikelandjelo is offline Mikelandjelo  Serbia
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Point is one thing.....cut in vinyl is made from information that comes to coil that controls cutter....and no feedback is possible.Whats cut its cut.Thats why sound is always more natural from vinyl....and thats why i had a miracle when i compared what i designed with A Class Technics amplifier i have.......when source is anything but turntable i had always warmer and more natural sound....BUT when i used turntable nobody in room couldnt beleive how big difference is,Techincs sounded like a toy.....I simply matched nature of how is sound recorded to be reproduced same way.Yet,making feedback less d class to give this is not even close to be said hard but its super hard.It took me now 6 years to get there.I opened this discussion to see is there something i missed .... like new feedback concept or new kind of design with all whats known about feedback that sounds "free" and i see that there is nothing new.If there is i will be glad to discuss that.During next year i will publish my website about all i did.Design will be for sale becouse i have no ambitions to manufacture it here in this fuc*ing state i live now.Thank you all for inputs in this topic.
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Old 3rd December 2017, 05:25 PM   #29
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikelandjelo View Post
Point is one thing.....cut in vinyl is made from information that comes to coil that controls cutter....and no feedback is possible.
Why not?
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Old 3rd December 2017, 06:01 PM   #30
jan.didden is offline jan.didden  Europe
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I think what he means is that the feedback can control the voltage/current to the cutter coil but not the cutter tip. The mechanical part of the cutting tip is outside of the feedback loop.

So, while the voltage/current of the coil can very accurately follow the source signal, the actual cutting path may have errors from that.

Then he says that therefor the resulting cuts in the vinyl are more natural - that is a strange way of putting it because it is clear that the actual cuts have errors from the source signal because the cutting point is uncontrolled, with all its vibrations and resonances and whatnot.

Jan
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