Charger that worked better than often buying new car batteries.
The storebought chargers could not help it.
My take on modernizing a circa 1915 car charger went like this.
Analog lamp timer with 48 stops (30 minute increments).
15v laptop adapter smps pack.
One, 10 amp 100v diode (similar low volt high current is fine).
Taillight from Wal-Mart (for dual coil stop-n-turn incandescent bulb).
I put the charger at 3 on, 3 off, 2 on, 2 off, 1 on 1 off repeating cycle. However, if you have only 24 stops do, hour on, hour off, 2 hour on, 2 hour off repeating cycle.
I used the taillight with 2-coil light bulb as a DC series element. Both coils set parallel--this unit used as a series element. Edit: Caution, heat for this project will be in that taillight.
The diode was also used as a DC series element. The 6a or 10a, 100v or 200v will drop 0.6v~0.9v and thus the voltage is reduced to what a normal car alternator will do with the engine running. Also, the diode is necessary to protect the SMPS laptop pack during the lamp timer cycling on/off in attempts to de-sulfate the battery.
The 15vdc laptop pack with the 2 series elements described, managed to do absolutely nothing for the first two hours. After that, the bulb lit with a dim glow. Three days after that the battery measurements were like an elderly battery, willing and able. At this point, perhaps don't drive anywhere that take more than 2 hours unless buying a new battery is your goal. Two weeks later, the news is different. 12.89vdc at idle it did. Like a new battery, was the result.
I don't drive often, and the battery in the 1993 Cadillac DeVille tends to falter before I get the urge to drive. But, not today. I though it a good idea to reduce the charge cycles to 3 2 1 just twice a day with the 48 stop mechanical timer.
Apparently our great-grandfathers and great-great-grandfathers had really good ideas on how to charge batteries. They did more eloquent circuits than my simplified rendition. Yeah, its crude, but I really love it because I can use the car!!!!
Edit:
De-sulfate attempt doesn't really substitute for a new battery. However it does substitute for a dead battery that's been hooked up to a modern charger provisioned with LED's to serve up a dim excuse. Instead, our incandescent indicator lights to indicate charging in progress.
This isn't for old batteries.
It is for boat, RV and the rarely driven car, typically with a newer battery hooked up to a storebought trickle charger or "tender" until the new battery suffers death-by-marketing; or, the battery that is run down and full charged several times until a modern charger faults. Batteries harmed that way are usually less than 2 years old. So, my charger is for that case.
The storebought chargers could not help it.
My take on modernizing a circa 1915 car charger went like this.
Analog lamp timer with 48 stops (30 minute increments).
15v laptop adapter smps pack.
One, 10 amp 100v diode (similar low volt high current is fine).
Taillight from Wal-Mart (for dual coil stop-n-turn incandescent bulb).
I put the charger at 3 on, 3 off, 2 on, 2 off, 1 on 1 off repeating cycle. However, if you have only 24 stops do, hour on, hour off, 2 hour on, 2 hour off repeating cycle.
I used the taillight with 2-coil light bulb as a DC series element. Both coils set parallel--this unit used as a series element. Edit: Caution, heat for this project will be in that taillight.
The diode was also used as a DC series element. The 6a or 10a, 100v or 200v will drop 0.6v~0.9v and thus the voltage is reduced to what a normal car alternator will do with the engine running. Also, the diode is necessary to protect the SMPS laptop pack during the lamp timer cycling on/off in attempts to de-sulfate the battery.
The 15vdc laptop pack with the 2 series elements described, managed to do absolutely nothing for the first two hours. After that, the bulb lit with a dim glow. Three days after that the battery measurements were like an elderly battery, willing and able. At this point, perhaps don't drive anywhere that take more than 2 hours unless buying a new battery is your goal. Two weeks later, the news is different. 12.89vdc at idle it did. Like a new battery, was the result.
I don't drive often, and the battery in the 1993 Cadillac DeVille tends to falter before I get the urge to drive. But, not today. I though it a good idea to reduce the charge cycles to 3 2 1 just twice a day with the 48 stop mechanical timer.
Apparently our great-grandfathers and great-great-grandfathers had really good ideas on how to charge batteries. They did more eloquent circuits than my simplified rendition. Yeah, its crude, but I really love it because I can use the car!!!!
Edit:
De-sulfate attempt doesn't really substitute for a new battery. However it does substitute for a dead battery that's been hooked up to a modern charger provisioned with LED's to serve up a dim excuse. Instead, our incandescent indicator lights to indicate charging in progress.
This isn't for old batteries.
It is for boat, RV and the rarely driven car, typically with a newer battery hooked up to a storebought trickle charger or "tender" until the new battery suffers death-by-marketing; or, the battery that is run down and full charged several times until a modern charger faults. Batteries harmed that way are usually less than 2 years old. So, my charger is for that case.
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Quite interested but totally puzzled, and I daily drive my 30 year old Peugeot 505 (the last of the 'big' cars, about the same 30mpg [4.2 liters] with a paltry 120hp!) that functions very well
What are the cycles that are repeated in the different sequences
A diagram to show the diodes, taillight, etc
Is the 48 stop analogue timer one of those 24 hour circular things that has the 1/2 hour indent tabs to turn the relay on/off at the different set times?
What are the cycles that are repeated in the different sequences
A diagram to show the diodes, taillight, etc
Is the 48 stop analogue timer one of those 24 hour circular things that has the 1/2 hour indent tabs to turn the relay on/off at the different set times?
It didn't happen without pictures.
The best thing for an auto battery is driving it regularly & perhaps once a month visit a relative across the state borders.
The ancient battery chargers often went past 15 volts which could 'cook off' any battery, the best idea for them is to use a mechanical timer. These dumb chargers are also great for equalizing wet LA batts. which the smart ones often fail to include that feature.
The best thing for an auto battery is driving it regularly & perhaps once a month visit a relative across the state borders.
The ancient battery chargers often went past 15 volts which could 'cook off' any battery, the best idea for them is to use a mechanical timer. These dumb chargers are also great for equalizing wet LA batts. which the smart ones often fail to include that feature.
My charger should be avoided for frequently utilized cars.
For batteries that have become damaged due to storage and infrequent use, the various rest periods may be even more important than the charge efforts.
They are in series. It is the most basic electronics imaginable. Generally, series elements deter excessive loading.
Yes, that's the case.
This has subsituted for the heavy, expensive and complicated thermo-responsive switching in the circa 1915 origninal. I used the lamp timer as a shortcut because I didn't think there was any hope for the battery, but did want to try.
My version is cheaper, simplistic enough to call it crude, and horrendously slower than the original.
I was in need of it though.
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Thanks for your reply Daniel,
It makes sense now and I'll try it out on some of our infrequently used batteries like the ones on the boat, for example -
I'd noticed the programming that is offered to extend the useful life of lithium batteries, etc but didn't think to apply it to the humble Lead Acid battery
It makes sense now and I'll try it out on some of our infrequently used batteries like the ones on the boat, for example -
I'd noticed the programming that is offered to extend the useful life of lithium batteries, etc but didn't think to apply it to the humble Lead Acid battery
Today, I was slightly disappointed. In two weeks it charged the battery beyond perfection. After that, I arbitrarily set it to one 3, 2, 1 cycle per day. After some time had passed I measured 11.86 vdc. That's not quite on. Sure the car computer aboard the 1993 Cadillac DeVille may have been computing several important and insane things; but, we do need a bit more eager start.
So, today, I doubled it and set the timer to 3, 2, 1 (those increments are half hour each) TWICE per day.
The number of idiot lights and variety is just amazing. It is really easy to find the keys. However, in direct porportion to the number of lights that go, the effiicency also goes up. That old thing is up to 31MPG average. I'm slightly alarmed because I don't think that early 90's designers had intended to make an efficient hybrid. It has been consuming more electricity than gas.
I had not expected that!
It requests gasoline twice a year; but, it really loves electricty.
It doesn't do anything else wrong; but, it is evident that I was in need of an effective battery charger.
So, today, I doubled it and set the timer to 3, 2, 1 (those increments are half hour each) TWICE per day.
The number of idiot lights and variety is just amazing. It is really easy to find the keys. However, in direct porportion to the number of lights that go, the effiicency also goes up. That old thing is up to 31MPG average. I'm slightly alarmed because I don't think that early 90's designers had intended to make an efficient hybrid. It has been consuming more electricity than gas.
I had not expected that!
It requests gasoline twice a year; but, it really loves electricty.
It doesn't do anything else wrong; but, it is evident that I was in need of an effective battery charger.
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Some cobbled together rig with a light bulb and diode is more likely to start a fire than do you any good. If your battery is <12 volts after being on any charge regimen, it is faulty. Get a new battery, Take it out of the car and put it on a purpose made battery tender when not driving for long periods. It will last you longer than you thought possible.
Taillight working normally isn't likely for a fire hazard.
It is probable that I'll need a new battery someday; although, I'd like to postpone that to somewhat less frequently.
Battery locale out of the car is impractical.
Car works fine--was reporting a success.
Cheerio!
Voltage < 12 volts is a success? Good luck with that!
You made something that you think works and that is all that matters.
I've had good success reviving old batteries with a 30 volt power supply, current limited to about 200mA. After the battery starts drawing a decent amount of current for a couple hours, disconnect and hook it up to a normal 6 amp charger and charge as normal. Repeated cycles will eventually wear the battery out, but you still get some use out of it.
Revivng batteries
There is a man in Hawaii who has posted a desulfator circuit on the net.
Uses a 555 timer, IRF640 mosfet, a few other parts.
Principle seems same, pulsed charging.
He is off the grid, so he is more dependent on batteries.
My charger has a half wave rectifier = pulsed charging!
On old cars sitting unused for long time, it is a good idea to disconnect one terminal of the battery, to remove current paths that could drain the battery.
Also a good idea to do that before charging, could fry electronics on newer cars.
There is a man in Hawaii who has posted a desulfator circuit on the net.
Uses a 555 timer, IRF640 mosfet, a few other parts.
Principle seems same, pulsed charging.
He is off the grid, so he is more dependent on batteries.
My charger has a half wave rectifier = pulsed charging!
On old cars sitting unused for long time, it is a good idea to disconnect one terminal of the battery, to remove current paths that could drain the battery.
Also a good idea to do that before charging, could fry electronics on newer cars.
One could also consider a trickle charger. Get a new battery if the old one is dead. If you're only getting 11-12 V out of it, it sounds pretty dead to me. Then use the trickle charger to keep it alive.
I think the comment regarding your contraption being a fire hazard was concerning the battery. You're dumping a significant amount of energy into the battery. You don't want to overheat the battery.
Tom
I think the comment regarding your contraption being a fire hazard was concerning the battery. You're dumping a significant amount of energy into the battery. You don't want to overheat the battery.
Tom
There's all kinds of goofy crap you can do with batteries. Aspirin in the electrolyte, etc... Nobody has a proven desulfator circuit that always works as there are different types of sulfation - it is a bit of a myth. Pulsed charging at 60hz isa bit of a misnomer... Disconnecting the battery is good because of parasitic loads. The worry about car electronics is kinda silly for most types of charging.
The best way to maintain a battery depends on actual chemistry. Generally starting batteries don't like to be really cold (think MN) or warm and they don't like deep discharge. They also like to be on float because they sulfate when run or stored partially discharged.
High current charging makes a lot of hydrogen (BOOM) and dries cells out - then you get weak cells and voltages <12V
Problem with off the shelf trickle charger is a new and harmed battery that is dead and the car doesn't go anywhere, so it hasn't been useful to buy a trickle charger from a store. That's actually much worse.
My crude charger was made for the troubles of a rarely driven car. The heat from the charging effort goes almost entirely into the light bulb (run under-specs). This plan certainly doesn't work better than buying a new battery twice a year, except for costs and planning matters. Even when new, the car was not often useful because the battery was dead, usually. Perhaps that's why the car still works--an under-exploited method for automotive longevity?
Even so, I probably will make use of your advice, with a slightly different re-interpretation involving same well working homemade trickle charger that doesn't harm batteries, along with a new battery.
It has turned out that the old battery is still an old battery. Although this has been charged well enough to fetch groceries in town, our USA holidays are coming soon, and Mom's house is a long distance away. Yes, a new battery seems a good idea for long-distance touring.
The old battery did get up to 12.7vdc at idle, eventually; however, in 1993, Cadillac accidentally made a hybrid, in that it uses more electric than gasoline. So, that particular, peculiar bit of automotive history requires a charger that doesn't harm batteries. Surprise! There's none in stores. But, it is nice to have one in the garage.
P.S.
The application is typical of boats, not cars.
Maybe that's only because we don't dispose of boats as frequently?
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New problem!
Although the 3-2-1 cycle twice a day has the old battery imitating new battery specs, now it is much more difficult to predict an appropriate time to replace the working battery.
And,
Someday in the future, perhaps unannounced, it would be more convenient if the car did not start. No doubt it will get to the destination eagerly enough, but after I turn it off, someday it will not re-start to go back home. I had not thought this matter through beyond getting the car to start.
Although the 3-2-1 cycle twice a day has the old battery imitating new battery specs, now it is much more difficult to predict an appropriate time to replace the working battery.
And,
Someday in the future, perhaps unannounced, it would be more convenient if the car did not start. No doubt it will get to the destination eagerly enough, but after I turn it off, someday it will not re-start to go back home. I had not thought this matter through beyond getting the car to start.
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I found that 555+FET desulfator kit on ebay too. 12 volts lead acid battery desulfator kit assembled | eBay
They said to use it along with a low current charger. And, it may work in 3 or 4 weeks, probably slow going because there's not enough variety in the pulse widths and cycles.
There's also a desulfator forum: Desulfator - 555 based and all pulse output stages - Lead Acid Battery Desulfation
It is interesting to find out about these signal circuits. Thanks! I'd definitely install the battery disconnect accessory before using any charger with a signal output.
My own contraption outputs clean DC, so that seems different.
Thanks! I wasn't aware that desulfator circult boards existed.
Found that on ebay with "desulfator assembled kit" for $8. Also there's a TapaTalk forum for desulfator.
Those are signal devices, not related to my charger that outputs clean DC.
On this topic, I've a curiosity to report. The DC charger wouldn't make any progress in charging a battery that had been abused by a storebought trickle charger, until I added that lamp timer for on/off cycles. Monotonous cycles with the lamp timer made insufficnet headway (as in slow). What really got it motivated and making fast progress is setting the lamp timer to make series of different cycles.
Sure wouldn't have guessed that I'd made the weridest one. That wasn't the goal--I just wanted clean dc that stays within normal range of car voltages because of too lazy to disconnect the battery. lolz!!! Also, couldn't guess why it works other than it was supposed to. Still works fine.
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