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Low Level Detail: An experimental search and test.
Low Level Detail: An experimental search and test.
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Old 17th January 2019, 08:08 AM   #121
davidsrsb is offline davidsrsb  Malaysia
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So long as there is no low low resolution DAC involved, the only cause of loss of low level detail that I would expect to come across is stiction in speaker cone suspensions and bearing play in record decks.
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Old 18th January 2019, 01:24 PM   #122
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Here's a totally different approach that was recommended by someone on another forum - play music through a system, and record it.

Feed the recording back through the system, record that.

Repeat the process.

Easy enough to do with Audacity. I've a speaker under test here that was basically unlistenable after about eight iterations. You could still tell which track was being played, but it was on a par with the cheapest of compact laptop speakers.

By repeating the process over and over again, you magnify all the errors that the system is producing.

Interesting test, I thought, although it's difficult to quantify exactly how the signal is degrading. The results are immediately and obviously audible, though.

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Old 18th January 2019, 01:36 PM   #123
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Like this? YouTube
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Old 18th January 2019, 02:52 PM   #124
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
Like this? YouTube
Kind-of.
Except what we're hearing in that video is the speaker interacting with the room, while I want the effect of just the speaker, magnified.

As a result, I had the mic within a foot of the speaker, to exclude room contributions where possible.

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Old 18th January 2019, 03:32 PM   #125
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Low Level Detail: An experimental search and test.
The repeated loop is often used with electronics, but with speakers it's going to be tricky. Getting too much of the room being the main problem, as noted. Frequency response quirks would also be magnified.
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Old 19th January 2019, 04:40 AM   #126
benb is offline benb  United States
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Low Level Detail: An experimental search and test.
I'd sure think mic placement would really affect the results too, whether it's a little too near the woofer or the tweeter. A full-range or coaxial might work better for that, but even so, ideally the mic should be "at usual listening distance" away, likely six feet or so, and you'd need an anechoic chamber to do it without the room sound dominating.

You could do this on a quiet day with the mic and speaker outside on stands 12+ feet in the air, but what would the neighbors think?
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Old 20th January 2019, 02:00 PM   #127
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pano View Post
The repeated loop is often used with electronics, but with speakers it's going to be tricky. Getting too much of the room being the main problem, as noted. Frequency response quirks would also be magnified.
Yeah, the degradation of the frequency response was an issue, but what was left over seemed to have some time domain issues, too.
Could've been the room, though.

Interesting idea for testing acoustic tweaks, but maybe not what we're after here.

Back to digging signals out of pink noise!

Chris
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Old 20th January 2019, 02:34 PM   #128
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Low Level Detail: An experimental search and test.
Done carefully it could be very revealing. But the recording environment would be tricky.

For an idea of tricky recordings, room noise and low level detail, have a look at what they are doing at the violin museum in Cremona. Nuts!
To Save the Sound of a Stradivarius, a Whole City Must Keep Quiet - The New York Times
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Old 21st January 2019, 08:58 AM   #129
chris661 is offline chris661  United Kingdom
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Looking at all those mics...

You need to see this: Comparison of different microphone positions for orchestra instruments
A huge project, but an incredible resource.

FWIW, it's also the source of a lot of frustration for me as someone interested in home HiFi - instruments can sound very different (yet they're all obviously the same instrument) according to mic position. So, what's correct?
In the end, I give up and just aim to reproduce whatever the studio engineers have done (ie, never mind if it sounds exactly like a particular instrument or not) in a way that sounds good to me.

Chris
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Old 22nd January 2019, 04:23 PM   #130
DonVK is offline DonVK  Canada
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That's a great find, thanks for posting it.
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