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Digitalized music causing stress??
Digitalized music causing stress??
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Old 29th January 2004, 09:35 PM   #81
jewilson is offline jewilson  United States
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I started to read it, until I noted that they don't understand sampling theory. They do not understand that even with two samples at 20kHz, AND the reconstruction filter after the DAC, which is an integral part of the system, you can perfectly capture and reproduce this 20kHz signal. It is amazing to see how many people are willing to criticise and comment on things they have no clue about.
Jan

It has been my experiences in design of ADC and sampling systems for data acquisition systems at Texas Instruments that Nyquist Sampling Theory has errors at high frequencies. As you approach 2 samples per period, errors can be considerable, we investigated the errors due to finite duration sampling of continuous signal and determined that this error can be considerable at the beginning and near the end of the sampling time window. These errors had a tendency to get larger at higher frequencies as they approach the Nyquist frequency ( fS / 2) for signal near the inside boundaries of the time window.

The easiest way to proved this is to build oscillators using a 16 bit DACís with EPROM lookup tables. Program the table with Triangle Waves and Sine Waves then measure the output after the aliasing filter, the proof is in there.

Nyquist Theorem's Consequences

It is worth noting that information about the signal V = V(t) at any given moment in time t n TS is distributed among all discrete samples { V[n] } with appropriate weights. Realistically, we are never presented with an infinite discrete time sequence and are therefore forced to perform the summation over a finite range. This is equivalent to a loss of information about the function V = V(t) not only before and after our time window (which is understandable), but also at the time points between the sampling points. This can introduce errors into the process of reconstructing.
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Old 29th January 2004, 11:24 PM   #82
john curl is offline john curl  United States
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Jim, this input is one of the reasons that I contribute to the internet. Sometimes, I learn from someone who has addressed specific problems. Keep up the good work.
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Old 29th January 2004, 11:29 PM   #83
john curl is offline john curl  United States
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KBK, the real problem with magnetic recording is that the particles are noisy when relatively large, but they have infinite print-through when they are too small. IE they change state almost by looking at them. ;-) This is the limit of analog recording, and perhaps digital magnetic recording.
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Old 29th January 2004, 11:37 PM   #84
jewilson is offline jewilson  United States
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Thanks John
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Old 1st February 2004, 12:16 AM   #85
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
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I remember getting hammered by the alt.highend newsgroup, way back when the Internet barely or didn't really exist....we communicated via BBS. I stated that we needed something that could sample fast enough to do justice to a 100kHz signal, as a minimum, due to the fact that locational abilities of the human ear require this, amongst the 'learned crowd, ie. audiophiles. Therefore, the limits of human hearing, in this ONE single area, are above that 100khz limit (stereo signal, locational cuing, sensitivity and discernment of source point). What I said was.. that the minimum sampling rate should be at the nyquist minimum for 100khz reproduction, about 226khz sampling or so. Since we work in digital doubling, etc.. I figured it might be 256khz sampling. Now, nearly a decade later..what is Sony using as a archival system?????

Note to all you A-Holes from The Highend news group? I rest my case. !

Then, what about the temporal intermixing of harmonics? VERY critical.

So, this issue has been addressed via...SACD. Mostly, anyway. But..as an addendum, when I modded my clock in the way I did.. most of the complaints, ie, loss of that critical information...disappeared. Cymbals became VERY clearly discernible in all aspects of what exactly a proper cymbal sounds like. The theoretical and noticeable shortcomings of 44.1/16 bit where still there, but frighteningly lessened in terms of sheer discernible musicality. It was amazing the affect it had on it's musicality. I have a friend I work in loudspeaker design with. He stopped playing records for a few months when he received the unit I made for him. This is no simple task to do to a man who has 10K (mostly Jazz) albums, and makes a living by hearing temporal distortion and harmonics.

As for the grinding. We go as far as we need to go. The mill is totally custom in design, is all I can say. We don't need large amounts, so we don't make large amounts. Sometimes the pigments will be ground for 3-4 days. For example, this can double the effectiveness (amount of Cadmium pigment per liter of produced paint) of a Cadmium pigment, and it is definitely ecenomically worthwile to go through the effort. A small container of such can easily cost $K's dollars.
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Old 1st February 2004, 07:06 PM   #86
KBK is offline KBK  Canada
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Speaking on the temporal intermixing of harmonics.. I have jury-rigged a system where I can switch from the stock clock to the modded clock on my SACD/DVD-A player...on the fly.

This system is hooked into the Behringer DCX2496 (modified) Digital crossover on the digital input of the Behringer. This, on a prototype MTM Morel based sealed floorstander. The room has about 12-14 custom Tube trap patented absorbers, and modified associated amplification and wiring which I am intimately familiar with.

The results? When the clock is of the modded variety, it is as if the treble level was reduced by about 2 db or more, and with a notch filter reducing the highs in above the 5-10k range or so. Switch to the stock clock...and boom! Noise, hash, hardness and indistinct. Imaging, transient speed, harmonics are all smeared, etc..thus appearing elevated in output to the casual listener.

Once you've heard something like that and had it around long enough to see what it does, there is no going back.

Music, like with turntables.. goes back to being relaxing. Women LOVE the modded digital system..which speaks for itself, to those who know what digital audio equipment does to/for women...... It's basically the ultimate test. Ask a woman who has been around audio equipment all her life what she thinks of it. Then you'll know it's any good or not.

Yours and my opinion don't matter much. Her's does.
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Old 2nd February 2004, 09:41 AM   #87
mrfeedback is offline mrfeedback  Australia
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Default I've Been Saying The Same For A Long Time............

"Music, like with turntables.. goes back to being relaxing. Women LOVE the modded digital system..which speaks for itself, to those who know what digital audio equipment does to/for women...... It's basically the ultimate test. Ask a woman who has been around audio equipment all her life what she thinks of it. Then you'll know it's any good or not."
Yeah, I have set up a very nice system in my long term GF's place, and if our relationship were to ever end I don't like my chances of getting it back.

"Yours and my opinion don't matter much. Her's does."
Yes, and if she doesn't like it, that expensive 'bloody stereo' represents a new car, and/or a new wardrobe and/or an overseas holiday denied her, and she will be sure to remind you.

Also be aware that if it sounds bad from the kitchen she may as well be stirring poison and curses both into your evening meal.

If she likes your stereo then she will probably love you too........works for me!!!

Calmness and 'niceness' in sound is what women far prefer above fine detail.
Remember women have the weird ability to listen to and memorize and then recall even years later multiple concurrent conversations in seemingly (to males!) impossible sonic environments .....Skinnyboy you have been warned !!!.

I usually willingly value women's subjective review of audio systems in preference to 'mere males' POV.
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Old 24th April 2019, 09:26 AM   #88
Alex Ra is offline Alex Ra  Ukraine
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The stupidization effect of digital sound is a kind of punishment - to the Western Society.
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Old 24th April 2019, 10:07 AM   #89
picowallspeaker is offline picowallspeaker  Italy
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Just take a look at the thread "RIAA amplifier inside the tonearm"
One would say: It's stupid - then give some reasons
Another one starts with : digitalize the signal right after the pick-up !
No one talks about the processing that the signal has to subdue.
I think of TT and vynil and I think: Ahhhh, Analog ! Straight, little processement of the sound, just find the flaws of the system and correct them.
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Old 24th April 2019, 10:10 AM   #90
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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Digitalized music causing stress??
yeah cos no cutting lathes use a digital delay line ever.
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