The simple answer is:-
TAKE YOUR EARS SHOPPING.
If you can't hear the difference, don't buy it.
At the Hi-End it's not just a simple matter of plugging together the basic concept components CD, AMP, SPEAKERS as each has its own characteristics and can influence the final result.
I've got Arcam CD36 (mid range), DIY A700 Amp (ML Clone) with B&W 683's. Using Chord Interconnects it is a VERY NICE setup for around the £4500 mark.
TAKE YOUR EARS SHOPPING.
If you can't hear the difference, don't buy it.
At the Hi-End it's not just a simple matter of plugging together the basic concept components CD, AMP, SPEAKERS as each has its own characteristics and can influence the final result.
I've got Arcam CD36 (mid range), DIY A700 Amp (ML Clone) with B&W 683's. Using Chord Interconnects it is a VERY NICE setup for around the £4500 mark.
Some high end audio such as cd and dvd players are just ordenary consumer products thats been put into fancy aluminum cases.
I've seen a web site about that. Same thing with this Grado brand, their headphone amps turned out to be some cheap components like some opamp and a few resistors potted with epoxy into a block of wood with those ununscrewable security screws.
I've seen a web site about that. Same thing with this Grado brand, their headphone amps turned out to be some cheap components like some opamp and a few resistors potted with epoxy into a block of wood with those ununscrewable security screws.
I think there is a huge psychological effect in hi fi, whereby even a technically-minded cynic like myself is automatically swayed by beautiful hardware and exotic materials. We hear what we expect to hear.
I once set up an experiment to compare Minidisc and a nice CD player. Releasing 'pause' on both at the same moment I was able to switch the amp between them and listen to the difference on headphones. I got the two sources perfectly synchronised first time and I could switch between them silently. I heard a clear difference, and Minidisc was disappointingly bad. It was only afterwards that I realised that my headphones had been plugged into the CD player all along. I had fooled myself perfectly, despite my pretensions of setting up some sort of 'scientific' experiment.
Ever since, I have been extremely cynical about hearing differences between pieces of equipment, but at the same time I enjoy suspending my disbelief and going along with the delusion like everyone else. I would never bet that I could hear the difference, but I have an idea that amplifiers shouldn't have tone controls or even source selector switches - particularly electronic ones - and shouldn't have fuses or relay contacts in series with the speakers. I know that op amps are superior to discrete circuitry, but I still have an idea at the back of my mind that they are not as 'pure' as a couple of transistors soldered down on a PCB.
I once set up an experiment to compare Minidisc and a nice CD player. Releasing 'pause' on both at the same moment I was able to switch the amp between them and listen to the difference on headphones. I got the two sources perfectly synchronised first time and I could switch between them silently. I heard a clear difference, and Minidisc was disappointingly bad. It was only afterwards that I realised that my headphones had been plugged into the CD player all along. I had fooled myself perfectly, despite my pretensions of setting up some sort of 'scientific' experiment.
Ever since, I have been extremely cynical about hearing differences between pieces of equipment, but at the same time I enjoy suspending my disbelief and going along with the delusion like everyone else. I would never bet that I could hear the difference, but I have an idea that amplifiers shouldn't have tone controls or even source selector switches - particularly electronic ones - and shouldn't have fuses or relay contacts in series with the speakers. I know that op amps are superior to discrete circuitry, but I still have an idea at the back of my mind that they are not as 'pure' as a couple of transistors soldered down on a PCB.
If you parallel up a pair of Hi-End Op-Amps with a decent PSU you will be competing with £2000 Headphone amps. If you take care with the PCB you will be astounded with the result.
During my search for the ultimate "Affordable" amplifier I was using a pair of B&W DM603s3 speakers. Eventually I found that the mid-range was lacking, I could have spent thousands on improving a signal that the speakers were incapable of reproducing.
I've now bought a pair of B&W DM683's which employ the lessons that they learnt from their £33000 Nautilus Range.
The two ends of the audio loop. INPUT and OUTPUT are far more importatnt than the bit in the middle. However the AMPLIFIER does play its own vital role.
Excuse my language but if you amplify S**T you will get louder S**T.
If you can't sing (speakers) then don't try to be a choir boy.
DIY'ing speakers is a very fine art. I do not suppose that there may be some very fine DIY speakers out there but the experimenting and results can be very hit and miss.
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It may be that you've fallen victim to some of the BS that surrounds hifi in general
The Nautilus speaker came out in the mid 1990s. The first range of speakers (800 series) that employed the lessons learned there came out at the end of that decade. So your DM603s3 certainly employed some of those lessons.Rather ironically, the B&W 'Matrix' innovation was a DIY job, in that the designer did it in his spare time. His boss at the time decided it wasn't worth devoting the company's effort towards.
AVE...
I have a question: how many of you can hear the difference between THD 1%, 0.1% and 0.01%? How many of you believe that GainClone made of high-end parts will sound better than GainClone made of parts salvaged from Unitra ZRK M9108 cassette tape player (made in Poland circa 1986)?
If any of you can hear the difference, then you are hearing it with your wallets...
We call it audiovoodoo...
Nordost CBIT-1 cable burner. It's supposed to make sound better by changing the molecular structure of cables with special signals. It used to cost 1200USD...
How about expensive power cords: prices ranging from 100USD up to 2500USD and more. Some people believe that high-end audio power cord will change the sound of whole system. But what with thousands miles of ordinary copper and aluminum cables that are between the power generator and wall socket?
Some more hardcore power cord related stuff:
Some idiot bought this:
How about a tool to demagnetize your CD's and DVD's? Furutech RD-2 will make your digital media better sounding and looking by removing all magnetic fields from CD's and DVD's. You can buy it here...
You also don't need to play with vacuum tubes and high voltages to make tube sound. Just buy Tube-O-Lator and make your solid state amps and chip amps sound "tube-ish". How it works, I don't even dare to guess. Fortunately the producer provided detailed description. It used to cost 59EUR...
You read about demagnetizing cables, right? Now let's demagnetize the whole audio system with this special signal generator: Gryphon Exorcist.
It costs only 230USD...
Review here...
There is more stuff like that, sold to the idiots, who will buy just anything to improve the sound in their minds. This is typical for people who are listening with their wallets...
I have a question: how many of you can hear the difference between THD 1%, 0.1% and 0.01%? How many of you believe that GainClone made of high-end parts will sound better than GainClone made of parts salvaged from Unitra ZRK M9108 cassette tape player (made in Poland circa 1986)?
If any of you can hear the difference, then you are hearing it with your wallets...
We call it audiovoodoo...
Nordost CBIT-1 cable burner. It's supposed to make sound better by changing the molecular structure of cables with special signals. It used to cost 1200USD...
How about expensive power cords: prices ranging from 100USD up to 2500USD and more. Some people believe that high-end audio power cord will change the sound of whole system. But what with thousands miles of ordinary copper and aluminum cables that are between the power generator and wall socket?
Some more hardcore power cord related stuff:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Some idiot bought this:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
How about a tool to demagnetize your CD's and DVD's? Furutech RD-2 will make your digital media better sounding and looking by removing all magnetic fields from CD's and DVD's. You can buy it here...
You also don't need to play with vacuum tubes and high voltages to make tube sound. Just buy Tube-O-Lator and make your solid state amps and chip amps sound "tube-ish". How it works, I don't even dare to guess. Fortunately the producer provided detailed description. It used to cost 59EUR...
You read about demagnetizing cables, right? Now let's demagnetize the whole audio system with this special signal generator: Gryphon Exorcist.
It costs only 230USD...
Review here...
There is more stuff like that, sold to the idiots, who will buy just anything to improve the sound in their minds. This is typical for people who are listening with their wallets...
It may be that you've fallen victim to some of the BS that surrounds hifi in general
Rather ironically, the B&W 'Matrix' innovation was a DIY job, in that the designer did it in his spare time. His boss at the time decided it wasn't worth devoting the company's effort towards.
As I said. TAKE YOUR EARS SHOPPING.
I love the sound, isn't that what we are all striving towards.
The DM603 series did not use the experience gained from the Midrange units of the Nautilus.
The Nautilus and the DM683 were some of the few that used the Kevlar Midrange with minimum suspension. This was certainly not used in the earlier DM603.
I certainly don't leave them at home.
Not all on this forum, no. But for me, yes that's what its all about. Make up whatever story you like for why you like it
You've got a bit confused here, so I'll have a go at straightening out some of the history. The Nautilus itself (that's the only one costing 33,000UKP a pair) does not use any Kevlar nor any fixed suspension drive units (FSTs in the parlance). The FST came out with the Nautilus 800 range.
If you change 'Nautilus' to 'Nautilus 800 range (excluding the N805 which is a 2-way)' then this becomes correct, yes.
At least at one time in the past quality hifi really was a cut above the "also rans" both technically and subjectively. Coming from the U.K. I can mainly comment on British equipment but I'm sure it would have been the same around the world.
At the time when the Quad II, 22 and Leak Varislope, Stereo 20 were top dog amplifiers and Quad had the first electrostatic speaker (and Leak the Sandwich Cone speaker), equipment of this ilk really was in another league to the gear that most people had ever heard or seen. It was not however much to look at.
As time has gone by and technology has "improved" it is both cheap and easy to give this level of performance and better. So how do they now justify the high cost?? Fancy styling and bull**** marketing of course! Simples.
At the time when the Quad II, 22 and Leak Varislope, Stereo 20 were top dog amplifiers and Quad had the first electrostatic speaker (and Leak the Sandwich Cone speaker), equipment of this ilk really was in another league to the gear that most people had ever heard or seen. It was not however much to look at.
As time has gone by and technology has "improved" it is both cheap and easy to give this level of performance and better. So how do they now justify the high cost?? Fancy styling and bull**** marketing of course!
Simples.
In 1974 the British audio magazine Hi-Fi Answers, published their best system for the grand total of 1000 Pound Sterling consisted of Pioneer PL12D turntable fitted with SME 9" arm + Shure V15 MkIII, KEF Concerto loudspeakers and the highly acclaimed Pioneer SA9100 amplifier.
What would you pay for an equivalent system today.
What would you pay for an equivalent system today.
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Likewise from a subjective point of view, a design from this forum could be one of the best there is except you can own it for a lot less outlay if you are willing to house it in a lot less glamorous enclosure
regards
trevor
AVE...
My data was outdated. The typical power cord for audio-morons costs 6000USD. Next step in perfecting the sound it would be to replace all cables between local substation and your equipment...
I'm browsing trough the CES 2011 blogs from stereophile.com and I wonder, how stupid audiophiles are. A little quote about cables:
My data was outdated. The typical power cord for audio-morons costs 6000USD. Next step in perfecting the sound it would be to replace all cables between local substation and your equipment...
I'm browsing trough the CES 2011 blogs from stereophile.com and I wonder, how stupid audiophiles are. A little quote about cables:
All cables are made of copper. Not counting cables used in cheap PSU's for PC's - these are made of iron. The only thing that matters about cables is the resistance. And this is very, very small. These are calculations of resistance for 1 meter of copper wire. The only variable is the cross-sectional area of the cable in square millimeters:
Now this matters only when we are dealing with high voltages and currents. Just apply Ohm's Law and calculate either voltage drop across length of cable or current limitation of cable (you must know the voltage and/or current that's flowing across the cable). You can also calculate how much power will be lost if the cable is too thin. However this is not really important. If the cable has proper diameter, then it's not important, if it costs 2USD/m or 2000USD/m. I can prove it by doing a blind test - something that all audiophiles hate...
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