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Curve Tracer of LockyZ: Better UI and Translation
Curve Tracer of LockyZ: Better UI and Translation
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Old 26th September 2020, 09:03 AM   #11
AIM65 is offline AIM65  France
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Curve Tracer of LockyZ: Better UI and Translation
This thread was about a curve tracer project, before COVID...
Curve Tracer or Audio Analyser?
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Old 26th September 2020, 05:19 PM   #12
CG is offline CG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikovsky View Post
I found a Japanese who are exactly developing with AD2.

http://daisan-y.private.coocan.jp/
Great find!

There's also this: Analog Discovery 2™ Curve Tracer * knack supply

Neither is exactly right, but getting close. For small signal devices, both will do the job. So will the DCA75 Pro. The gap is for higher power devices, like you'd use at an amplifier output.

The SPICE model extraction part is the puzzler. For me, anyway, since I am not a software expert. Most effective approaches described on the web use some sort of curve analysis method that backs the required information out of the curve. My naive thinking is that if you have a programmable piece of test gear that gives that data directly rather than making a curve that you then back data out of, you'd get better accuracy. And, it would be easier to use, too.

Personally, I just want to design and build various pieces of audio gear. LTSpice and the others are a tool to help me. I want another tool that'll let me sort me devices or generate my own database of models based on measuring a number of samples. That's all.
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Old 26th September 2020, 05:55 PM   #13
CG is offline CG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AIM65 View Post
This thread was about a curve tracer project, before COVID...
Curve Tracer or Audio Analyser?
Thanks for reminding me of this thread. I'd seen the first few entries when they were fresh, but hadn't followed it through.

This was primarily about a proposed commercial product, which doesn't seem to be on the market yet. Perhaps due to COVID, as you suggest.

Later posts suggest that other people would like SPICE model generation, too. They were roundly shouted down for some reason...

Anyway, I look at it like this.

SPICE models are usually derived from analyzing curves generated by curve tracers, plus some other data. At one point in time, curve tracers used continuous sweeping of the driving function and synchronous detection of the response. The data was captured by taking a photo of the screen. Later, methods for direct screen capture became available. Fast forward, and you find that the driving functions are generated by a zillion points that effectively make a curve and the response is examined by another zillion sample points that effective make a curve. Then, for the SPICE model, the curve generated from all those sample points is fit by some software to extract data points. To my unskilled thinking, there's a lot of middle steps there that could be skipped if you just generated the points you need and sampled those.

The advantage of an Analog Discovery (just one example) is that a lot of the heavy lifting has already been done, both for software and hardware. Yeah, some adaptation is needed to attain the current and voltage levels we might all like. But, that part seems pretty doable. There's already software available from at least two sources that will do the curve tracing. What is needed is that additional hardware and the software that specifically tests for and extracts the data points needed for SPICE models.

Guys like Bob Cordell and Andy Connor have already shared great work on making SPICE models from the data curves. You'd think that there might be an easier way forward.
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Old 26th September 2020, 09:16 PM   #14
PRR is offline PRR  United States
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Curve Tracer of LockyZ: Better UI and Translation
Quote:
Originally Posted by EUVL View Post
There are many published curve tracer circuits on the net.....
Simple curve-tracer from 1980
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:00 AM   #15
erikovsky is offline erikovsky
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Another optimization:

the picture in "Diagram" can be enlarged without distortion.
This makes measurement more intuitive, you can looks a the diagram while you are doing measurement.

At the offset test result shown in the picture, the fluctuation is less because I changed the servo OPamps.

The original servo OP that LockyZ used is Chinese-made TPXXX, and I replace them with OPA2177, the result get better obviously.
Actually, you can replace them with OP77, 07, 97, etc. to get stable offset results.

I will share my modding tracer log afterwards, including low-temp-co resistors at the output of each channels, and relays. I replaced them with Finder and some omron and other Japanese-made relays. My tracer is now stable and happily running without problems.
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Old 28th September 2020, 01:21 AM   #16
erikovsky is offline erikovsky
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Mine is no.22 handmade by LockyZ, it was produced in early 2020, very first batch of the tracer. At that time, there is only used-parts version. So I have to replace many key parts.

ADC: replace with TL431 1% ref as power supply.
DAC: replace with precision, low drift 5V voltage reference, and low-ESR caps.
Relays: All replaced with new Finder power relay and Takamisawa small signal relay.
Shunt resistor: <1% 25ppm wirewound high power 5W.
OPA: OPA2604 are used, but you can also try TL082 or LM358.
Power: MeanWell 36VDC 200W SMPS.
The test result of Linear supply and SMPS are the same, so use SMPS for better cost-effectiveness and smaller volume.

LDO: New LM317 TO-220 for +36V supply to OPamps.


According to Locky_Z, there are some cases that reports MCU malfunction due to unknown reason. This happened to me, Locky_Z just sent me another MCU board, and solved the problem.
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File Type: jpg IMG_3871.jpg (894.7 KB, 169 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4171.jpg (999.3 KB, 170 views)
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Old 28th September 2020, 10:47 PM   #17
sonidos is offline sonidos  United States
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Curve Tracer of LockyZ: Better UI and Translation
I've had one of his earlier models. I inadvertently had power applied on the psu, plugged in the connector, got a large spark, then nothing. I ended up replacing parts with new ones and took the easy route of sourcing a new relay with the same part number from China, but I think the quality of those relays are iffy because it acts up from time to time. Locky_z helped me through it but you would think a primo version would work out for him with less support issues.
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Old 29th September 2020, 12:22 AM   #18
gerhard is offline gerhard  Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
Hi,

thank You so juch for Your great effort.
having waited for years I also bought the new version with used parts recently and are far from confident with it.
Probabely its still some unfamiliarity with the device, but more often than not it just puts out weird results and wild cards similar to what's shown in Your pics.
I put it aside because of great disapointment and low time.
Maybe Your software changes that.

jauu
Calvin
I second that. Outliers like these simply must not happen:

< microchip_dn2470 | Some Vgs vs. ID curves of DN2470 transist… | Flickr >

And the original Chinese text would have an advantage over the translation,
that the Google translator it is bound to improve over time.

Gerhard
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Old 29th September 2020, 09:32 PM   #19
erikovsky is offline erikovsky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gerhard View Post
I second that. Outliers like these simply must not happen:

< microchip_dn2470 | Some Vgs vs. ID curves of DN2470 transist… | Flickr >

And the original Chinese text would have an advantage over the translation,
that the Google translator it is bound to improve over time.

Gerhard
Any other suggestion about the software? I am doing further change, so please feel free to give me feedbacks.
Any problem on reading technical manuals? English version is under work.
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Old 12th January 2021, 05:45 AM   #20
locky_z is offline locky_z  China
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I don't care if you use the EXE resource tool to modify my program, but you'd better not increase the version number, which will lead another one to think that your program is officially released.
My suggestion is to keep the original version number and add "(modi)" to indicate that it is a modified version.
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