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ADCs and DACs for audio instrumentation applications
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Old 23rd March 2021, 04:14 PM   #481
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Got it. Thx.
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Old 23rd March 2021, 04:21 PM   #482
InspectorGadget is offline InspectorGadget
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No problem. It was never specified in the 9018pro and given the pin descriptions, I had always powered them separately, so, while it makes you wonder, i'm not arguing with a $50-70 reduction in my BOM

also, just a reminder @ syn08, running high FS and mono, your 1.2V pins should be increased to 1.3V

Last edited by InspectorGadget; 23rd March 2021 at 04:31 PM.
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Old 23rd March 2021, 06:18 PM   #483
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InspectorGadget View Post
yes, its not well worded at all, if you dont catch the notes section near the bottom of page 5, you would think they are separate.
Thanks, I didn't catch the p. 5 foot note and, as a result, in the layout above I included separate power supplies for digital 1.2V. Once I get the boards tomorrow, I have to avoid populating those extra power supplies, otherwise they will collide with the 1.2V analog supplies (if the pins are internally connected). Yes, I am aware of the 1.3V requirement for running @100MHz, thank you.

**** ESS, their NA distributor once again rejected my order for ES98x2PRO ADC chips and the application for the data sheet, once again because I don't have a company behind (and yes, I tried mocking something, didn't work, they checked, asked for more proof, website, previous products, etc...). This is beyond ridiculous.

Last edited by syn08; 23rd March 2021 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 23rd March 2021, 10:43 PM   #484
InspectorGadget is offline InspectorGadget
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No problem Mate. Wow at ESS, that is absurd. What a bizarre business model.
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Old 24th March 2021, 03:02 AM   #485
chris719 is online now chris719  United States
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ADCs and DACs for audio instrumentation applications
It's sadly not the worst out there. Try dealing with Broadcom, Qualcomm, or Marvell for example. Even if you are a decent size company, if they don't smell 100k-1M+ qty they don't really care to communicate. If you want one of the parts available at Digi-Key, fine, but any of the NDA protected parts or SoCs, good luck.
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Old 24th March 2021, 02:21 PM   #486
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Well, I am dealing with the suspects you quoted on a weekly basis, and while you are correct in your assessment it is also true that for these companies high volumes/low prices is part of their business model.

ESS doesn't match this type of business model by any metric. Minuscule market and high prices (with huge margins, I presume).
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Old 24th March 2021, 06:48 PM   #487
1audio is offline 1audio  United States
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ADCs and DACs for audio instrumentation applications
Given the costs of startup for an lsi chip profits don't exist until you hit 1 million units.

ESS has always been difficult. CSR was good until Qualcom bought them and then support was only for tier 1 customers. The rest get second rate support through distributors. It makes some sense if you are pushing the envelope of what can be done to only support big guys but then only yesterday's projects get done. Little really inventive happens inside the constraints of the big tier 1 companies.
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Old 24th March 2021, 08:32 PM   #488
chris719 is online now chris719  United States
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ADCs and DACs for audio instrumentation applications
The issue I run into is that we’re sometimes working on low volume but extremely expensive capital equipment. We don’t care if they want to charge us a lot, but if we need something, we need something. That means we sometimes run into issues when we need something from one of the big vendors and it’s not one of the parts that’s stocked at normal distributors. TI, AD, Maxim are great, but some are not.
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Old 24th March 2021, 09:58 PM   #489
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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I started to avoid&hate Maxim since they began obsoleting parts without any respect for existing customers. Any decent chip manufacturer creates its own wafer bank before they decide announcing the obsolescence of a product, with a buffer of at least few years for last time purchase and then maintenance/support parts. Not Maxim, in 3 months the obsolete product was gone, without any replacement or second source, effectively screwing their customer base. Apparently they got better in the last decade or so.

I can tell, Broadcom has absolutely no price/performance competitors for telecom CPE (Customer Premises Equipment) SoC's. This is entirely based on high volumes and penny pinching in support. You have to be an 1M+/year customer to get any kind of attention from their FAEs and SDK teams. Without that, you found a bug in the SDK, tough ****, you live with it and work around, if you can. If you can't, they won't shed a tear over your business.

Last edited by syn08; 24th March 2021 at 10:04 PM.
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Old 24th March 2021, 11:04 PM   #490
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1audio View Post
Given the costs of startup for an lsi chip profits don't exist until you hit 1 million units.
That's not entirely true, there are more factors involved here.

It is certainly true for the products built in the bleeding edge processes, like memories. To have a ballpark, an EUV (Extreme UV) lithography scanner doing 80 wafers/hour in a typical 5-7nm node memory process costs north of 120M$, and there are at least 10 masks that require that resolution, then at least 15-20 machines are required for the sweet spot between output and cost. That's why very few companies have their own fabs today, most (including Broadcom, ESS, Qualcomm, Marvel, etc...) are using foundry services, like TSMC.
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