I'm the lucky recipient today of some Kester 44 solder, 63/37 with 3.3% flux 0.020" / 0.5mm
So I thought I'd do some comparison with the solder I've been using.
The conclusion I've come to is that my roll of "63/37" 0.8mm is at least probably lead solder, but probably not 63/37.
I've another roll of "60/40" 0.3mm which I had got for fine work and always hated. I am pretty sure it's lead free.
Here are the tests I did and results.
1. 200C iron, melting point test.
Kester : Melted easy. Good wetting.
"63/37" : went chunky
"60/40" : nothing. At 220C, chunky. At 240, melted.
2. Solder test, iron 300C, some breadboard (I didn't clean it but it isn't "dirty")
Kester
middle) good wetting, easy, glossy
"63/37" : (right) reasonable wetting. Glossy until cool then "cloudy". Cleaning doesn't improve it.
"60/40" : (left) melted okay but poor wetting. Crystalline finish.
Thought these comparisons might be helpful.
Verdict: the Kester is amazing. I can't wait to use it in anger...
The solders used:
Kester (44 flux 63/37 0.5mm):
Kester 24-6337-0010 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020 1 lb. Spool: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
"63/37" (0.8mm) :
Retail 300g Hot Tin Lead Solder Core 0.5 mm/1mm/0.8mm Soldeing Wire Welding Wire 63/37 Tin Lead 2.0% Flux Roll Reel Solder Tools
AliExpress
"60/40" (0.3mm) :
1 Roll Tin Lead Wire Rosin Core Solder Soldering Wire 60/40 For SMD Welding Rework Repair Accessories 0.3/0.4/0.5/0.6mm Hot Sale
AliExpress
Hope this helps someone else make better choices regarding trying to save a few bucks on solder.
So I thought I'd do some comparison with the solder I've been using.
The conclusion I've come to is that my roll of "63/37" 0.8mm is at least probably lead solder, but probably not 63/37.
I've another roll of "60/40" 0.3mm which I had got for fine work and always hated. I am pretty sure it's lead free.
Here are the tests I did and results.
1. 200C iron, melting point test.
Kester : Melted easy. Good wetting.
"63/37" : went chunky
"60/40" : nothing. At 220C, chunky. At 240, melted.
2. Solder test, iron 300C, some breadboard (I didn't clean it but it isn't "dirty")
Kester
middle) good wetting, easy, glossy"63/37" : (right) reasonable wetting. Glossy until cool then "cloudy". Cleaning doesn't improve it.
"60/40" : (left) melted okay but poor wetting. Crystalline finish.
Thought these comparisons might be helpful.
Verdict: the Kester is amazing. I can't wait to use it in anger...
The solders used:
Kester (44 flux 63/37 0.5mm):
Kester 24-6337-0010 44 Rosin Core Solder 63/37 .020 1 lb. Spool: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
"63/37" (0.8mm) :
Retail 300g Hot Tin Lead Solder Core 0.5 mm/1mm/0.8mm Soldeing Wire Welding Wire 63/37 Tin Lead 2.0% Flux Roll Reel Solder Tools
AliExpress
"60/40" (0.3mm) :
1 Roll Tin Lead Wire Rosin Core Solder Soldering Wire 60/40 For SMD Welding Rework Repair Accessories 0.3/0.4/0.5/0.6mm Hot Sale
AliExpress
Hope this helps someone else make better choices regarding trying to save a few bucks on solder.
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You sure you don't have a contamination issue? Or Temp Issue?
Both my 60/40s and 63/37 when soldered properly are bright
and shiney, not dull.
60/40 is good for tinning raw copper ends, leads etc.
63/37 is then good for assembly.
You also might want to swab the board with 99% Isopropal.
In some other thread Kevin Kennedy mentioned that he
has his iron temp at 700 F and has not problems etc.
I concur with that. I've had now board problems at that temp.
At 700F, I have when I use desolder braid, especially on the two layer
boards....at times it got stuck, and I pulled and up came the trace.
So I bump it up to 720F or 730F, without issues.
Both my 60/40s and 63/37 when soldered properly are bright
and shiney, not dull.
60/40 is good for tinning raw copper ends, leads etc.
63/37 is then good for assembly.
You also might want to swab the board with 99% Isopropal.
In some other thread Kevin Kennedy mentioned that he
has his iron temp at 700 F and has not problems etc.
I concur with that. I've had now board problems at that temp.
At 700F, I have when I use desolder braid, especially on the two layer
boards....at times it got stuck, and I pulled and up came the trace.
So I bump it up to 720F or 730F, without issues.
I don't normally solder at 300C. This was purely for comparison, however the chinese solder never sets bright and shiny, no matter the temperature.
It does work however, and I've used it a while now, but it's just okay, but it can be picky, and its just not as good as a quality solder.
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Advice from a high reliability solder course I took,company that put it on sold equipment and repaired boards of all types,multi layer irreplaceable military ones with bullet holes thru them as an example.---Always use flux,rosin type,do not just rely on the rosin core in the solder.Use 63/37 solder,its eutectic,freezes instantly.Clean the pads/leads etc. with 99% isopropyl alcohol and LINT free tissues,do not use rubber erasers etc.Tip temperature of 600 F.If not enough heat getting to joint with this temperature then your tip is too small for the application,don't just turn up the heat to compensate.Don't use too much solder,there are lots of pictures available showing proper joints.Clean up the joint aferwards with the isopropyl alcohol.
oreo382,
I'm not disagreeing, and wondering are you using metcal or similar?
Using standard resistive element soldering iron, hakko, weller and the like
I stand by my observations and use. At 600F, I would destroy board
and parts from over heating them.
I don't regularly use wet flux in additional to core flux, but know folks who do.
Sometime you have to go with what you have, as far a solder tips go, and I have
plenty of variety.
I found the post to which I was referring, here are kevin kennedys own words:
As an aside, at the electric aircraft manufacturing company in Fort Worth, Texas, it was stated that the temperature needed to be 617F for proper wetting and around 654 Ffor electrical bonding to take place. That is what was described to me by their soldering training staff, along with the rest of the J Standards.
I've not had issues at 700F.
There is more over at the sick of crap solder thread: LINK
Cheers,
I'm not disagreeing, and wondering are you using metcal or similar?
Using standard resistive element soldering iron, hakko, weller and the like
I stand by my observations and use. At 600F, I would destroy board
and parts from over heating them.
I don't regularly use wet flux in additional to core flux, but know folks who do.
Sometime you have to go with what you have, as far a solder tips go, and I have
plenty of variety.
I found the post to which I was referring, here are kevin kennedys own words:
As an aside, at the electric aircraft manufacturing company in Fort Worth, Texas, it was stated that the temperature needed to be 617F for proper wetting and around 654 Ffor electrical bonding to take place. That is what was described to me by their soldering training staff, along with the rest of the J Standards.
I've not had issues at 700F.
There is more over at the sick of crap solder thread: LINK
Cheers,
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Interesting reading about the "hot and fast" school of soldering. I'll have to try it. It's not how I was taught, but times have obviously changed ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Anyway, this thread was meant to be about what you're paying for with on brand quality solder, and not really intended to be about technique, but is making the perhaps one inevitable detour in that direction [emoji6]
Anyway, this thread was meant to be about what you're paying for with on brand quality solder, and not really intended to be about technique, but is making the perhaps one inevitable detour in that direction [emoji6]
The difficulty with the hot and fast technique is dwell time. If you stick around too long, the rapidly rising temperature will start to compromise the pc board traces, some set components, and certainly any epoxy or thermoset plastic holding a wire in place.
I've had to perform failure analysis on several different types of soldering failures. For one, the workers were using small tip irons set rather high to solder wires to little switches, you know the 1/4 inch panel mount type with 3 or 6 gold plated terminals sticking out the back.. The operators would sometimes hold the iron to the terminal too long, and the epoxy holding the terminals would withdraw from the hot surface, allowing the flux residue to creep into the switch and deposit directly on the contact surface.
When you have several thousand of these units, you tend to be sensitive to this kind of error. I made the vendor switch to a higher mass tip with lower temperature set point so that the mass helped heatup but it settled at a reasonable temperature rather than overheat. The rule is, use the absolute largest tip you can for the job, and keep the temp reasonable.
As to the OP, a 60/40 should be practically identical to a 63/37 in terms of everything...I suspect the 60/40 he had contained bad flux from the jump.
jn
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One in the same. Tbh I'm increasingly sure it's not even 60/40 - the melting point is too high, and adding flux doesn't improve the behaviour much. That's the trouble with off brand Chinese solder, you don't really know what you're buying. It may not even be a sane or well measured alloy. It could be literally anything...
I grabbed the Kester gear for the ACA as per the build guide advice. Gets my thumbs up.
I started with temperatures just above the eutectic. Worked but not recommended. I found the Mr Carlson lab vid soldering tutorial really useful for a noob like me. Unfortunately, that was at the wrong end of the job.
Should be pretty right with the above. Good to read the commentary here from people with the experience. File that away for use for the next time.
I started with temperatures just above the eutectic. Worked but not recommended. I found the Mr Carlson lab vid soldering tutorial really useful for a noob like me. Unfortunately, that was at the wrong end of the job.
Should be pretty right with the above. Good to read the commentary here from people with the experience. File that away for use for the next time.
My post's intention was not to disagree with you but to relay the knowledge I gained from a company that is well respected in the industry.The company's name is Pace.In addition I attended a week long SMD solder course in the city where I live.It was given at a local college and that instructor mimicked the advice from the Pace instructor.BTW,we exclusively used Kester 63/37 solder.The Chinese solder sounds suspect as to actual makeup and purity.
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If you are questioning the actual alloy composition, I would try putting various alloy lumps on a copper plate...put some plumbing flux in the mix, heat from underside with a torch slowly. Also try a lump of tin silver.. I think if you score a demarcation between samples, you can prevent cross contamination.
You should be able to see the various melt points in sequence if your careful enough to not have a large gradient across the copper plate.
IIRC, mil spec solder pot was 50 C above eutectic. 233 C for tin/lead, 271 C for tin/silver.
jn
I believe that these solders can also vary quite a bit from batch to batch. I recently was struggling with a big roll of 63-37 solder I had, that flowed very poorly, and would not easily wet both sides of a wire joint. It also cooled to a dull, grainy appearance, even when used with additional flux. I went to my local auto parts store and bought some Alpha-Fry brand 63-37, and the difference was immediate. The Alpha-Fry solder instantly wetted the tip of the iron, and quickly formed even and shiny joints regardless of temperature.
Folks:
I hope this isn't deemed too off-topic, but I am curious about how "regular" solders like Kester 63/37 compare with eutectic solders with a small silver content. I bought a pound of Welborne 2% silver solder a long time ago and it's nearly depleted. A pound of any solder may well last me the rest of my life. I will soon need to buy something. Wonder Solder Signature seems very well-liked and is one contender but I have no clue how it compares to Kester's product.
At the risk of inciting vitriol, can someone who is familiar with both offer an assessment of their performance, both in use and in sonics?
Regards,
Scott
I hope this isn't deemed too off-topic, but I am curious about how "regular" solders like Kester 63/37 compare with eutectic solders with a small silver content. I bought a pound of Welborne 2% silver solder a long time ago and it's nearly depleted. A pound of any solder may well last me the rest of my life. I will soon need to buy something. Wonder Solder Signature seems very well-liked and is one contender but I have no clue how it compares to Kester's product.
At the risk of inciting vitriol, can someone who is familiar with both offer an assessment of their performance, both in use and in sonics?
Regards,
Scott
It seems unlikely there would be any difference sonically although I'm sure some will claim to hear the difference.
Kester 63/37 is a eutectic solder. And the 44 flux is evidently one of the best out there.
I would be wary of solders making wild claims and charging a hefty premium over established brands such as Kester, Multicore et al
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