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The way forward (Soldering).
The way forward (Soldering).
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Old 28th June 2019, 11:02 PM   #21
Refugee1 is offline Refugee1  United Kingdom
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Yes indeed they must have been floating around like asbestos fibers.
I have found whiskers on plated steel of an unknown metal in a 1950s signal generator.
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Old 29th June 2019, 01:18 AM   #22
suzyj is offline suzyj  Australia
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Leaded solder is needed for playing heavy metal music.
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Old 29th June 2019, 01:51 AM   #23
Max Headroom is offline Max Headroom  Australia
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Yeah, Death Metal......


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Old 10th July 2019, 03:52 PM   #24
audiofan is offline audiofan  Canada
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I think better soldering should use silver alloy .... but soldering is a weird science ............
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Old 10th July 2019, 06:31 PM   #25
wiseoldtech is online now wiseoldtech  United States
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60/40 tin/lead rosen core solder has been used since it was invented, and has held up to the tests of time quite well.
It's all I'll ever use in my quality work.
All that other silver, etc crap you can have, it sucks.
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Old 10th July 2019, 07:26 PM   #26
jneutron is offline jneutron  United States
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It is interesting to see efforts at making flux, I like it.

When I select a flux, my concerns are:
1. Basis metal to be soldered to.. This will determine the chemistry and activity of the flux. Nickel for example will require a more aggressive flux than gold.
2. Solder alloy.. This will determine the temperature range of activity required. A lead free flux is designed to activate at the temps required, 221 to 232 C. If flux designed for eutectic tin/lead is used with lead free (bismuth excluded), it may burn before the alloy melts. Conversely, a lead free flux may not activate at the lower temps.
3. Residue activity.. As many RMA and RA fluxes use zinc chloride, the residue contains hydrogen chloride. Some applications do not take well to that.
4. Component heat tolerance.. Many older plastics do not react well to lead free soldering temperatures.
5. Tip temperature.. Too many times in industry as well as diy, they use a small tip and elevated temp to speed the process. The problem is the work temperature ramps fast and can speed past the temp required for soldering, into the plastic compromising area. Better to use a higher mass tip set lower, relying on the heat capacity to bring the work up to temp.


Soldering any alloy to any basis metal is trivial when these factors are considered well. Proper flux and cleaning are by far the best bang for the buck.

Jn
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Old 17th July 2019, 02:01 AM   #27
1audio is offline 1audio  United States
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The way forward (Soldering).
Quote:
Originally Posted by jneutron View Post

Soldering any alloy to any basis metal is trivial when these factors are considered well. Proper flux and cleaning are by far the best bang for the buck.

Jn
Since that has not been my experience soldering to zinc or chrome plated steel (cheesy connectors) what are your recommendations?

A chart of the combinations would be really helpful since all you mention should be posted somewhere. With lead free solder and other tech "innovations" the old eutectic solution is no longer universal.
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Old 17th July 2019, 06:56 PM   #28
jneutron is offline jneutron  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1audio View Post
Since that has not been my experience soldering to zinc or chrome plated steel (cheesy connectors) what are your recommendations?

A chart of the combinations would be really helpful since all you mention should be posted somewhere. With lead free solder and other tech "innovations" the old eutectic solution is no longer universal.
I typically use RA water based flux when the base metal is a difficult one. But since it's so active, it should only be used to tin the surfaces, and never used to tin a stranded wire as it will wick and kill the wire over time.

I use it all the time on stainless, inconel and nichrome.

The only thing is, clean the flux off very well after tinning, then use regular flux for the final connection.

The superior flux website has different flux formulations for various metals. I used it about 27 or 28 years ago.

John

PS..it's still there, found this:

Finding a Flux by Application | Superior Flux & Mfg. Co.
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Last edited by jneutron; 17th July 2019 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 23rd July 2019, 05:55 PM   #29
mondogenerator is offline mondogenerator  England
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Default Great!

I am both old and not.

I have avoided lead free solder as I found it so unworkable, that it made me doubt I'd ever learned to solder at all!

So I too stash away good leaded solder. I also have some which isn't so good, fluxes badly, and stinks. I only got it for finer work.

The lower temp stuff with silver in is nice to use.

Anyway ROHS forces most of us to use lead free at work.

The latest lot I have works well, though seems finicky with flux, and could probably use more flux than the core provides. It either flows beautifully, like leaded solder, or just goes gloopy. But that the best I've used yet. IIRC its perhaps 0.5% Cu.

But your point is correct. The alloys are getting there....but just noone knows which alloy to use, or there are so many it's difficult to select the best.

Anything which helps further my understanding of how on earth to find a good ROHS solder, is welcome news. (Even if I'll still prefer leaded until I find something as good)
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Old 25th July 2019, 01:40 AM   #30
jneutron is offline jneutron  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondogenerator View Post
I am both old and not.

I have avoided lead free solder as I found it so unworkable, that it made me doubt I'd ever learned to solder at all!

So I too stash away good leaded solder. I also have some which isn't so good, fluxes badly, and stinks. I only got it for finer work.

The lower temp stuff with silver in is nice to use.

Anyway ROHS forces most of us to use lead free at work.

The latest lot I have works well, though seems finicky with flux, and could probably use more flux than the core provides. It either flows beautifully, like leaded solder, or just goes gloopy. But that the best I've used yet. IIRC its perhaps 0.5% Cu.

But your point is correct. The alloys are getting there....but just noone knows which alloy to use, or there are so many it's difficult to select the best.

Anything which helps further my understanding of how on earth to find a good ROHS solder, is welcome news. (Even if I'll still prefer leaded until I find something as good)
25 years ago (give or take), I was thrown into the lead free fray. I developed soldering processes using lead free... It works extremely well when all the chemistry is considered. I note that I did use a few tons of tin/silver. At the time, I was the worlds largest consumer of eutectic tin silver..

That...and a quarter.

Jn

Ps. After that, I had to work on reliability for a big machine where some vendors and many piece parts were ROHS... I am ready to retire....
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Last edited by jneutron; 25th July 2019 at 01:44 AM.
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