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Hakko FX-951
Hakko FX-951
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Old 23rd May 2019, 09:29 PM   #11
audio king is offline audio king  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Zan View Post
To answer my own question for the record, (and in case I ever need to remind myself).
The Hakko 951 is not an eddy current iron but copies the idea of the JBC.
It has a resistance heater in the tip and uses that resistance wire as part of a thermocouple to measure the temperature.
Quite clever - very closely coupled so minimal delay and excellent control, the JBC irons are well respected for this.
The controller is not inherently expensive to make, so it looks like JBC performance is now possible at clone prices.

David
Why do you say Hakko copied JBC?
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Old 24th May 2019, 04:06 AM   #12
Dave Zan is offline Dave Zan  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audio king View Post
Why do you say Hakko copied JBC?
As far as I know JBC was the first company to embed the heater coil in the tip itself next to a thermosensor, and has used the idea for years.
So I wrote what I did because it seems Hakko uses the same idea but came later.
There was no moral implication whether Hakko were "copycats", if that was the concern of your question.
It's a fine idea, now commonly used even by cheap clones.
I am not sure if a patent has expired or if it's just that people tend to copy each other.

Best wishes
David
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Old 24th May 2019, 11:03 PM   #13
PRR is offline PRR  United States
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"A" JBC patent (may not be "the" patent), showing sensor up inside tip:
EP1086772A2 - Electric soldering iron - Google Patents

A Hakko patent for a "tongs" which also has a sensor in tip:
US6972396B2 - Electric part heating device and electric part handling device - Google Patents

Of course the *Patent* is the "Claims" at the end. Which need interpretation in light of prior art and citations. FWIW, this JBC patent is "elderly", and may have expired *today*??
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Old 27th May 2019, 02:08 AM   #14
Dave Zan is offline Dave Zan  Australia
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Originally Posted by PRR View Post
"A" JBC patent (may not be "the" patent)...
Thanks for that, does seem to be "the" patent for JBC.
I now see what the difference is between the Hakko and the JBC - as mentioned in articles on DIY JBC or Hakko controllers.

Quote:
FWIW, this JBC patent is "elderly", and may have expired *today*??
This confused me at first too, all the other dates are when a status transition occurred but then the app puts in today's date to tell you what the status is as of now.

Best wishes
David

Last edited by Dave Zan; 27th May 2019 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 27th May 2019, 04:11 AM   #15
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Hakko FX-951
Very recently I bought a Hakko clone of a T-12 type iron. Its a KSGER with the best controller board and the "Micro" handle. I love that handle! It's pretty cool because it remembers the calibration constants for all the tip types, but you have to do the temperature correction which is then remembered. Only the tips I have show in the selection list, making it fairly painless to change tips. The only thing I don't have is an iron holder.

I'm super glad to have this station now. I was even able to get it with a 1.5 meter cord. That's perfect for bench use. A 1.25 meter might suit some folks better.

Curie point temperature regulation is what all those Weller stations used to regulate temperature. Those switches were the least reliable design and the #1 reason I dropped Weller from my shop bench gear. The cheaper "Solomon" stations are far more reliable and better performing than the Weller stuff.

So yes, a T-12 type soldering station is a real pleasure to use.

-Chris
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Old 27th May 2019, 10:19 AM   #16
suzyj is offline suzyj  Australia
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The weller irons use a mechanical switch which disconnects the power when the tip hits the magnet’s curie point. The Metcal irons also use curie point, but instead have an inductor made with wire coiled around a magnet. when the magnet hits its curie point the impedance changes and the power dissipation drops.

Advantage of the weller setup is you just put power in at 50Hz or even DC. The base station is just a transformer, so it’s cheap. Alas there’s hysteresis in the setup so the temperature of the tip varies wildly, and then when it oxidises a little bit and sticks on, well then it just burns out.

The Metcal approach needs a HF source to keep the coil small and thus the tips compact, so the base station is a great big 13.5MHz power amp. That’s expensive. The advantage though is that the temperature regulation at the tip is really, really good. Plus the tips are tiny. Because the regulation is good, tips don’t overheat and oxidise, so it’s just way better.

There are cheaper Metcal/Oki irons that run at 430 odd KHz, but their tips are huge in comparison to the 13.5vMHz ones.
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Old 27th May 2019, 12:25 PM   #17
jackinnj is offline jackinnj  United States
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Hakko FX-951
Quote:
Originally Posted by suzyj View Post

There are cheaper Metcal/Oki irons that run at 430 odd KHz, but their tips are huge in comparison to the 13.5vMHz ones.
Working on military aircraft?
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Old 27th May 2019, 02:35 PM   #18
anatech is offline anatech  Canada
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Hakko FX-951
Hi Suzy,
Agreed, but the Metcal tips still have a relatively short lifetime compared to my other irons. I tend to run on the cool side, 300C or just above for most of my work. I bring out "big ugly" when there are more substantial joints to work on. "Big ugly" is my Solomon soldering station. It's well over twenty years old now. It normally has a big screwdriver tip on it.

-Chris
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Old 27th May 2019, 04:18 PM   #19
kodabmx is offline kodabmx  Canada
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Hakko FX-951
I do mainly point to point wiring of tube amps, and I set mine to 450C. The tips last a long time, and the T12 tips are only 15 bucks to replace from Digikey.
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Old 8th June 2019, 01:18 PM   #20
thermionic is offline thermionic  United Kingdom
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Has anyone used both the FX-951 and the Weller WSP80 / WDS81? We have a couple of WSD81 in the workshop, as well as Hakko 936s. The time's come to get another WSD81, but to be honest, I'm not convinced the Wellers are as attractive as they once were (customer support is literally non-existent in the UK, although spares in 24 hours from Farnell is a plus point). The FX-951 could be just the ticket. Have always found Dancap (UK Hakko distro) to be great; they've been taken over by a new firm, whose support we've yet to experience...

If we spent a lot more, the Metcal CV-5210 could be an option. Is the 'connection verification' function really that useful? Is it worth twice the price of the FX-951?

TIA

NB - new iron will have to contend with 2oz copper ground planes. This is an area where the 936 falls down and the WSD81 only just scrapes through...
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