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Bosch vs Makita router
Bosch vs Makita router
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Old 12th October 2018, 06:54 AM   #21
classicalfan is offline classicalfan  United States
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Navyblue,

You should be more concerned about the type of router than the brand. The difference between Bosch and Makita is minor compared to the difference between a trim router and a plunge router.

If all you need a router for is trimming veneer there are much cheaper and safer ways to do it with hand tools. You can buy a simple little veneer trimmer for under $20 that will do a great job.

Also, using a trim router is not as easy or safe as it looks. You have a very small base to slide along the work piece and it can be difficult to keep it from tilting. If it does tilt you will mess up the edge and probably can't repair it. A base extension can help and with practice you can make it work. But don't be fooled by the videos on the websites. People who are shown in those have probably made that pass many times.

If you want to build your own speakers a plunge router is really needed to cut out holes for the drivers, not a trim router. Particularly if you want to cut a rabbet for the frame to sit in, or a chamfer on the back of the hole. Can't do that with a trim router.

If you can get DeWalt where you are at I'd look at those as well.

Last edited by classicalfan; 12th October 2018 at 06:57 AM.
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Old 12th October 2018, 07:10 AM   #22
gadut is offline gadut  Indonesia
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plunge router is usually 3x more expensive than trimmer on the same brand. the only downside of a trimmer for me is the collet 1/4" size and sometimes it's hard to get what you want. but lately i find aliexpress is so helpful on my needs, i can find 60/45 chamfer, 3/4" rabbet, or finger joint bit.

making a hole of 21" is not an issue at all. indeed you need time to practise, start from simple job
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Old 12th October 2018, 08:42 AM   #23
Navyblue is offline Navyblue  Singapore
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Classicalfan,

Actually my current strategy for making holes is with hole saw. I have a set that can open holes for drivers up to 5". I will just have to avoid larger drivers. For flush mount, I would cut a thin ply with holes the size of driver's frame and glue this in front of the baffle. It will not be perfectly flush (may be 1-2mm off at most) but I think this might do for my amateur needs.

So for now my immediate need is to trim veneer or thin plywood. I could do this with a normal or some specialised blade, or a Dremel. But I think a smaller hand router is the more versatile tool. Though I see your argument that it could be that awkward middle ground.

The 900W Makita plunge routers are not out of my budgets, but if a plunge router is only good for making speaker holes, it's a tad hard to justify keeping it (space is a premium for me). I think if I had enough practice and get good with a router, I could limp it with a 500W ones or rent a bigger one for that rare occasions.

To cut thick and deep might be a problem for weak motor, with a circle jig I think I can do incremental depth and take more passes. It will take more time, but if I build a pair of speakers every couple of years (a very very high estimate for me), this is not a big problem I think.
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Old 12th October 2018, 06:58 PM   #24
classicalfan is offline classicalfan  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue View Post
Classicalfan,

Actually my current strategy for making holes is with hole saw. I have a set that can open holes for drivers up to 5". I will just have to avoid larger drivers. For flush mount, I would cut a thin ply with holes the size of driver's frame and glue this in front of the baffle. It will not be perfectly flush (may be 1-2mm off at most) but I think this might do for my amateur needs.

So for now my immediate need is to trim veneer or thin plywood. I could do this with a normal or some specialised blade, or a Dremel. But I think a smaller hand router is the more versatile tool. Though I see your argument that it could be that awkward middle ground.

The 900W Makita plunge routers are not out of my budgets, but if a plunge router is only good for making speaker holes, it's a tad hard to justify keeping it (space is a premium for me). I think if I had enough practice and get good with a router, I could limp it with a 500W ones or rent a bigger one for that rare occasions.

To cut thick and deep might be a problem for weak motor, with a circle jig I think I can do incremental depth and take more passes. It will take more time, but if I build a pair of speakers every couple of years (a very very high estimate for me), this is not a big problem I think.
You have things backwards. A plunge router is a much more versatile and useful tool than a trim router. It can do trim routing perfectly fine and much better than a trim router if the surface you're putting it on is 3" wide or more.

The only reason for a trim router is if the support surface is less than 3". The problem with trim routers is that they have a very small base and you hold them in one hand a few inches above the bit. It is very easy to tilt them and ruin the edge. They are not as easy to use as it appears in the videos. It is much easier and safer to control a plunge router with two hands providing you have enough support surface.

Hole saw sets come in specific sizes and although you might get lucky and have one that matches your driver selection it is more likely that you won't. The only practical ways to cut driver holes are with a jig saw or a plunge router with a circle jig. I use a Jasper jig with a DeWalt plunge router and can adjust the size from 1" to 7" in 1/16" increments to match any driver I might choose. There are other jigs to cut larger holes.

Your comment about using a fixed base trim router with a jig to make holes by incrementally increasing the depth is rather scary. If you are thinking of changing the depth of cut with the motor running in the trim router - DON'T. It would be very dangerous. Right up there with holding the speaker box with one hand and the trim router with the other. That's a job for a plunge router only.

Finally, there are several manufactures that now offer a plunge base accessory for their trim routers. Bosch and DeWalt do. I don't know about Makita. That may be your best bet. Buy a trim router now and then buy the plunge base later when you might want it to cut driver holes.
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Old 12th October 2018, 09:43 PM   #25
jhofland is offline jhofland  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Navyblue View Post
Well, may be not that small. Say for trimming laminate off a bookshelf speaker. I can't really clamp this, but I would imagine I need one hand to support the speaker while trimming?
AS PRR said, A STRONG NO. Make sure whatever you are working on is stationary without the use of one of your hands. Otherwise, the likelihood of cutting yourself is very high.
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Old 12th October 2018, 10:11 PM   #26
NATDBERG is offline NATDBERG  United Kingdom
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You can get plunge router bases for Makita trimmers - not too bad. They win over a larger plunge router when you're doing multiple, repetitive tasks, where you're lifting it off and doing it quickly. Proper plung routers are heavy and more of a pain to pick up and put down etc.

I'd say a trim router though is much more about quick stuff e.g. rouning off edges of timber to stop splinters doing long runs of edges.

I'm sure a craftsman veneerer person would trim the veneer with a good hand tool. Too much risk of messing up with a power tool and then you're also running the guide bearing thing along your good surface..
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Old 14th October 2018, 06:39 AM   #27
H713 is offline H713  United States
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Both are great routers. If I could squeeze it into my budget, I'd try to have both a small trim router and a bigger (could be a plunge, but it doesn't have to be) router. Some things are nearly impossible to do with a huge, 3 HP plunge router. Trimming veneer with a monster router is difficult, and if you need to work inside a cabinet, it's often too big.

At the same time, run a 1/2" pattern bit with a trim router trying to cut out a big hole for a woofer and it's going to be agonizingly slow. Not really the right tool for the job.

All that said, I use trim routers more than plunge routers. The big stuff only comes out when I need to move a lot of material- cutting out speaker baffles, 1/2" + quarter rounds, slot-cutting bits for splines, and other bigger profiles. Not sure how much of that you're going to be doing.

Also, regarding clamping: It's not uncommon to do smaller quarter rounds on cabinets and shelves (say, 1/8 radius) on a sanding mat without clamping (using a trim router of course). I know of almost nobody who clamps down table tops when trimming veneer flush. It's common practice, though I always recommend clamping things down whenever possible. Under no circumstances would I hold the workpiece in one hand and the router in the other. As mentioned above, changing height on handheld routers while they are rotating is indeed quite dangerous.


Also, the post regarding the guide bearing leaving marks on softer woods is definitely correct, especially with crappier router bits (if you can afford it, Whiteside is worth the cost... believe me).

I second the hand work- a good hand plane, properly set up and sharpened (Japanese waterstones are key here), is an invaluable tool that is worth the investment. Same with good chisels.

My experience is more with furniture than speaker cabinets (though I've built a few speakers).
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Old 14th October 2018, 09:43 AM   #28
Navyblue is offline Navyblue  Singapore
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Thanks guys for your input, I think I am going with something like Makita RT0700C. It looks like a very popular model with many clones. So the Makita and third party accessories are in abundance.

Among those accessories there is a specialised base for trimming veneer, if not I can simply screw a strip of wood with a handle under the router for the same result.

Cutting big holes in thick material is not high on my list. My go to method is hole saw, and also it's possible to do this with a jigsaw and circular guide. I'm sure a router would do a prettier job, but this is inside the speaker and internal aesthetic is not that important to me.

So as mentioned my primary use us for trimming veneer, and may be cutting rebate for driver flush mounting. So we are talking about removing just a few mm material here.

As for progressively increasing the depth, this is a Dremel trick to overcome the limitation of its weak motor. And no you cannot do this while the machine is live. Even if you don't mind ruining the workpiece and yourself, the vibration would make it difficult to make precise adjustment (we are talking a few mm here).

Edit: With regard to roller marks, I read that we can stick masking tapes where the roller would be rolling, I don't know how well this works though.
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Last edited by Navyblue; 14th October 2018 at 09:47 AM.
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Old 14th October 2018, 06:47 PM   #29
classicalfan is offline classicalfan  United States
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[QUOTE=Navyblue;5572656]Thanks guys for your input, I think I am going with something like Makita RT0700C. It looks like a very popular model with many clones. So the Makita and third party accessories are in abundance. /QUOTE]

Looks like a good choice for your needs. The pictures show a clear extension attachment with a handle. Don't know if that's included or not, because I've never seen it in the US. However, if it's not then definitely purchase it as well. You will need it. Balancing that router on its small circular base without tilting it at some point is not easy.

Makita offers a kit, at least here, with the plunge base for quite a bit less than buying that base later by itself. You will eventually need a plunge base to build proper speaker baffles with a chamfer on the back and a properly sized rebate on the front.

Have fun building whatever you're going to do.
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Old 14th October 2018, 08:50 PM   #30
jev is offline jev  Netherlands
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I bought second hand Festool = the best I think
But not Makita and not Bosch
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