Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Equipment & Tools From test equipment to hand tools

AverLAB Audio Analyser
AverLAB Audio Analyser
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10th October 2017, 05:43 AM   #11
diyaudnut is offline diyaudnut  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Yes it is fair to keep it a secret.
Yet it takes a lot more than just the chip to achieve the performance level your specification suggests. Congrats for realizing those.

Price point is very impressive for professional users, yet mostly out of reach for individual DIYers. Which again is understandable, there is enormous amount of work involved and skilled people need to be paid well to enjoy a decent living in California.

Will follow the company and its products. Good luck.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2017, 11:48 AM   #12
skidave is offline skidave  United States
diyAudio Member
 
skidave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Quote:
Originally Posted by diyaudnut View Post
Price point is very impressive for professional users, yet mostly out of reach for individual DIYers. Which again is understandable, there is enormous amount of work involved and skilled people need to be paid well to enjoy a decent living in California.
OK, this I can solve. We suggest a move to the most economical place to live in the USA (not sure where that is without some research) and then we can hope for a DIY version for a reduced cost!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2017, 03:17 PM   #13
Sawdust123 is offline Sawdust123  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Sawdust123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles area
Quote:
Originally Posted by diyaudnut View Post
Price point is very impressive for professional users, yet mostly out of reach for individual DIYers.
I think you are mostly correct but I learned that there are lots of exceptions. I used to sell a fair number of brand new analyzers to DIYers while at AP and at the same time dealt with profitable, well-known companies couldn't justify replacing old test gear that couldn't even test the feature sets of their new products.

I am a DIY guy too and I know that I am often more motivated about the sense of accomplishment in making something myself rather than cost or time savings. I have built many things that would have been much cheaper and quicker to just purchase (and sometimes of higher quality ). Maybe there is a market for a "Heathkit" version of AverLAB.
__________________
Not all that matters is measured, not all that is measured matters.
www.avermetrics.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2017, 03:22 PM   #14
Sawdust123 is offline Sawdust123  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Sawdust123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles area
Quote:
Originally Posted by skidave View Post
OK, this I can solve. We suggest a move to the most economical place to live in the USA (not sure where that is without some research) and then we can hope for a DIY version for a reduced cost!
I hear there is a fire sale on real estate in CA right now...

Too soon?

Actually these fires are no joke. I used to work for HP/Agilent (now Keysight). The fires in Santa Rosa have destroyed the area around Keysight's HQ. I traveled there regularly for 11 years and the two hotels I would stay at have been destroyed. I'm sure many of my former colleagues lived in the surrounding neighborhoods and are homeless today.
__________________
Not all that matters is measured, not all that is measured matters.
www.avermetrics.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2017, 06:52 PM   #15
AverPaul is offline AverPaul  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
AverLAB Audio Analyser
Hi All!

Thanks for the interest and questions about AverLAB. I'm Paul Messick, and I take all the blame for things Avermetrics. Jonathan will take all the credit for anything good, I'm sure.

I started this back in the Dark Ages of 2011 with the idea that there had to be a better way to do testing--not just audio testing, but testing of all kinds of electronics. It shouldn't cost $10's of thousands of dollars and be complicated and slow to use. I think we've made a bit of headway on this idea, but like life it's a work in progress.

We're not terribly secretive around here. I don't see any upside to that, unless the reality is you don't know what you're doing. In that case, everything must be secret!

So, regarding the ADC's and DAC's we use: when we started all this I did a survey of everything that's out there that might be suitable. Strictly from a measurement perspective, the best ADC we've found is the AKM AK5394A. Similarly, on the DAC side we selected the TI/BB PCM1794A.

We regularly get better than -112dBc THD+N (at +26dBu) on the ADC, with typical numbers in the -114dBc range. We haven't published the final specs--one of our engineers is currently measuring a whole stack of AverLAB's so we get good, sustainable numbers. But this gives you an idea of what we're seeing.

DAC's are always more difficult as far as THD+N goes. We are seeing typical numbers in the -110dBc range (at +26dBu), with worst case somewhat higher due to range variation, etc. In this regard we're not that much different than the $10K analyzers that are out there.

[Side note: these may or may not be the best parts if you're looking for a particular sound. The best specs and the best sound are sometimes not as closely related as we might like.]

As for noise levels, you have two things to look at. First is noise as you would measure with autoranging. This would apply for measurements such as SNR, crosstalk, and so on. In this case, we are able to do better than 145dB SNR because we have a well-designed autoranging front end. The other way to look at noise is in a single range. Here, the noise floor is primarily that of the DAC or ADC by itself. Here we see input noise floor on the order of -120+ dB, and DAC output noise floor on the order of -126 dB. These sort of numbers apply for single-range measurements such as THD+N, DR, and the generator output. Again, by careful design we're able to meet or exceed the datasheet specs in most areas.

Which reminds me, when I started Avermetrics, I thought "I'll start with audio, that'll be EASY!" After all, I've been designing pro-audio gear since the 80's, and we did a lot of high-performance stuff at M-Audio and Digidesign. Hahahahahah, yeah. It took a year and a half (of continuous work) to get the first products (our AverLine production system) to meet the sort of specs we needed. I think I got to Rev F on most of the analog boards. My hair also turned grey during that time. Related?

As all of you know, good audio is damn hard. It's my hope that having some good tools will help make it a little easier for you. But you'll be the judge of whether AverLAB fills that bill.

I'm glad to answer any questions--or at least make up answers that sound convincing--about this, or any other engineering related topics. I've done a couple of things in the last 40 years or so; maybe I can pass a little on, and certainly I can learn from all of you.

Paul
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2017, 07:07 PM   #16
BlacK_Chicken is offline BlacK_Chicken  Germany
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Dear Avermetrics Team. Thank you very much for the broad insight.

Personally, regarding future features: I'd love to see the higher input voltage range and a Software that is able to extract the harmonics and the noise individually.

Best wishes & good luck!
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2017, 07:19 PM   #17
skidave is offline skidave  United States
diyAudio Member
 
skidave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pennsylvania
Awesome! Thank you for sharing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10th October 2017, 08:06 PM   #18
AverPaul is offline AverPaul  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
AverLAB Audio Analyser
A test for THD without noise is easy for us to add, as is one that gives the amplitude of each of the harmonics. Jonathan and I have talked about this test in the past; I'll make sure it's in a near-term release of the software.

Regarding higher levels, this is largely a constraint of cost, with a lesser impact to physical size. To give you an idea of what's involved, we use very high reliability reed relays (with rated life of 10^9 cycles). Up to a certain voltage level one could add relay-driven attenuators, but eventually you hit the rated max voltage of the relay and have to start using other solutions. These tend to be much larger, MUCH more expensive, and much less reliable. And we haven't even got them into the schematic yet!

Every product contains a matrix of tradeoffs, and this was one of the early ones we had to accept in order to have a product that every engineer might be able to afford.

The solution we have is that you can build a small attenuator for the input(s), calibrate that attenuator using AverLAB, and let it automatically correct for the reduced level. This feature is slated for an early release (I think the first version will only allow you to enter an attenuator offset as compensation.)
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2017, 04:43 AM   #19
diyaudnut is offline diyaudnut  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Excellent. Thanks for sharing the details.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11th October 2017, 12:06 PM   #20
udok is offline udok  Austria
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Austria
Hi Paul,

Is it possible to synchronize the internal clock to an external word clock or DARS?

How have you solved the clock generation and distribution to the modules without adding too much jitter for the excellent THD+N values you get?

Are there good PLL chips on the market which can be used?

Thanks,
Udo
  Reply With Quote

Reply


AverLAB Audio AnalyserHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Audio Analyser benc Equipment & Tools 9 4th January 2012 10:23 PM
Visual Analyser, LX.1690 Analyser kit and other MAGICS!!! fotios Software Tools 8 18th March 2008 01:48 AM
Visual Analyser & Nuova Elletronica LX.1690 KIT Oscilloscope + Spectrum Analyser fotios Solid State 25 9th March 2008 07:35 PM
Audio analyser Mattwong Parts 8 19th December 2003 09:24 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:52 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2018 diyAudio
Wiki