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Old 11th July 2017, 02:36 PM   #1
ashok is offline ashok
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Have you guys noticed that Audiomatica has released a new measurement package, the Clio-12 . It has a USB interface for the PC ....finally.
Was always hearing about problems with the older Firewire interface.

Has anyone seen this unit so far ? This must be basically a Clio-11 with a USB interface instead of the Firewire interface?
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Old 11th July 2017, 07:53 PM   #2
celef is online now celef
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I'm curious why they call the new USB hardware for FW-02, sounds like FireWire to me?
They should have called it USB-01 or similar
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Old 12th July 2017, 06:35 AM   #3
ashok is offline ashok
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You are right. It isn't a Firewire unit anymore.
Maybe just to indicate it's the next upgrade from FW-01 . USB-01 might sound like something completely different ?
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Old 12th July 2017, 08:14 AM   #4
secanbj is offline secanbj  Sweden
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It would be nice if it was possible just to swap out the firewire card and put in the USB card as an upgrade to the current owners of the FW-01
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Old 12th July 2017, 02:47 PM   #5
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The casings look the same. But if the user installs a card and does soldering etc. , how would you get warranty on the whole unit ?
Wonder if Audiomatica will encourage that even if it's possible. But you never know, until you ask them.
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Old 12th July 2017, 02:53 PM   #6
secanbj is offline secanbj  Sweden
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Firewire card is removable, so no soldering needed. I have sent the question to Audiomatica, so hopefully they reply.

/Anders
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Old 14th August 2017, 12:04 AM   #7
lholland is offline lholland  United States
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Hi Everyone:

I'm Audiomatica's N. American distributor and will do my best to answer you questions. For the stuff I don't know I'll find out, but not for at least a couple of weeks because Italy is on holiday for August! :)

I just updated my web site to cover CLIO 12 and you'll find quite a bit of detail there (see link in my signature line below).

FireWire was and still is in some ways a superior real-time interface to even the latest USB versions, but it was Apple's domain and they nuked it as well as a lot of the 3rd party market that was built on it. It was basically a replay on a larger scale of the Betamax fiasco in the mid/late 70's. This was rough on small companies like Audiomatica that threw their hat in the FireWire ring. Finally all that is history.

The USB2 based FW-02 that CLIO 12 comes with is very similar to the earlier FireWire based FW-01. It is a little more involved than just the USB2 interface card plugged into the top of the motherboard, but conceptually, not much. A downside is that USB2 doesn't offer the voltage that FireWire did, thus the FW-02 comes with a small 12VDC power adapter (and maintains the +18dBu output stimulus capability). For less that $30 USD you can get a 6000mAh battery to power it for about 11 hours, but I almost always make measurements with my laptop plugged in anyway, so this isn't a deal breaker for me.

For current owners of CLIO FW (versions 8-11), there will be significantly discounted upgrade pricing to move to CLIO 12 and have your FW-01 upgraded to an FW-02. That pricing hasn't been set yet, but will be within a couple of weeks. More good news is that the pricing for new CLIO 12 systems remains the same as for CLIO FW v11. I have (10) new CLIO 12 systems in stock ready to ship.

For those that want to upgrade, they will generally need to send their FW-01 audio interfaces to Audiomatica in Italy to do the work. This is far more involved than just swapping digital input cards and a rear panel, it involves soldering a new control chip on the motherboard, reprogramming that chip, replacing the electrolytics in question and then running full diagnostics with calibrated gear to verify performance. There is a reasonable probability that I will be able to do this as well for N. America, but it'll be a few weeks before I receive the components needed to upgrade the (2) CLIO FW v11 systems I own, which I will use to prove to myself and to Audiomatica that I can do as good a job as themselves.

Beyond the hardware, CLIO 12 offers significant software improvements that continue to make it my desert-island measurement system (if I could only have one, this would be it). I could go on and on about this, but my favorite is the significant enhancement in the Wavelet analysis for resonance detection. For those of you familiar with Ivo's excellent ARTA, CLIO 12 has Burst Decay plotting on steroids and it's called Wavelet Cycle analysis. This is both 2D and 3D and all significant parameters are adjustable to achieve the best time/frequency compromise for your situation. The bottom line is that the Wavelet Cycle displays allow excellent low frequency resonance analysis in addition to the excellent high frequency analysis available with "standard" Wavelet analysis and to a lesser extent, old fashioned Cumulative Spectrum Display plots.

Fire away if you have other questions or want crazy detail about anything I already touched on. I love measurement and began working with Audiomatica (and Outline for their best-of-breed turntables) out of a decade of using them for my own work. I'm a loudspeaker and acoustics geek for the love of it.

Last edited by lholland; 14th August 2017 at 12:08 AM.
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Old 14th August 2017, 05:07 AM   #8
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lholland View Post
FireWire was and still is in some ways a superior real-time interface to even the latest USB versions, but it was Apple's domain and they nuked it…
Apple didn’t abandon it, they upgraded it. Intel designed Thunderbolt to be able to support Firewire, USB, DisplayPort, and PCIe.

I’ve not heard of any firewire peripheral that didn’t work with Thunderbolt thru the adaptor.


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Old 14th August 2017, 05:20 AM   #9
lholland is offline lholland  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planet10 View Post
Apple didnít abandon it, they upgraded it. Intel designed Thunderbolt to be able to support Firewire, USB, DisplayPort, and PCIe.

Iíve not heard of any firewire peripheral that didnít work with Thunderbolt thru the adaptor.

dave
Technically, you are absolutely correct. Thunderbolt rocks. I have never had a problem making FireWire work through either Thunderbolt 2 or 3 with Apple's adapters and several other mfg's I tried. Laptops from Lenovo, Dell, Apple worked flawlessly. They even carried the bus powering properly for the FW-01, but it didn't matter - most customers didn't want the bother of the adapters or didn't know the adapters existed. Others were expecting absolute plug-and-play and didn't want the inconvenience. FireWire is actually easy to implement but amazingly few people realize that.

Anyway, I'm glad the support pain concerning the interface bus is over with. :)
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Old 14th August 2017, 05:31 AM   #10
planet10 is offline planet10  Canada
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Cab you get Clio 12 with Firewire — an interface i much prefer for audio.

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